October 6, 2011

coexist

Beware of Progressive Christianity: Jesus lovers are really Jesus haters

“It is inevitable that Christians who would now be described as “liberal” will be the overwhelming majority of Christians in America.” John Shore from his article on The Inevitability of the Rise of Progressive Christianity. This is one of the few statements of John Shore that I actually agree with.  Sad, but true – a truth prophesized in God’s word:

Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables. 2 Timothy 4:2-4

Well, that time has come beginning in Jesus’ day and growing in numbers each century since.  Progressive Christianity (sometimes known as emergence Christianity) is a movement that is swelling in numbers day by day.  It is one of the movements behind many churches that now accept homosexuality as normal and allow Gay pastors.  It is also a movement that accepts other religions as being acceptable for a relationship with God. It is a movement that downplays many biblical admonitions considering them outdated thus their title as “progressive.” Popularity rules with progressives and not the truth. Societal issues are determined by numbers rather than God’s truth.  Inclusivity is the norm and exclusivity is hated.

This aberrant faux Christian movement’s primary scriptures to defend their love for people are found in the Bible and says, “These things I command you, that you love one another.” John 15:17 or Love your neighbor as yourself,”  Matthew 22:36-40. Because of this love, progressives take this to mean not to offend anyone even if it’s a biblical commandment.  The word sin itself becomes offensive to the progressive or at least watered down.  And repentance is no where to be found. Spiritual rebirth or regeneration is not necessary to the progressive because all you have to do is “love one another” and God will accept you. Some examples of biblical beliefs that are ignored by progressives and replaced with their own theology are the following:

  1. Jesus is the only way to God (John 14:6) – progressives believe that Jesus is one of many ways to God
  2. The Bible is the authoritative Word of God (2 Timothy 3:16) – progressives believe that the Bible shouldn’t be taken literally
  3. Man must be born-again and saved through God’s grace only (John 3:3 and Ephesians 2:8-9) – progressives believe that one is eventually saved through good works
  4. Only those who receive Christ can be called children of God (John 1:12) – progressives believe all people are already children of God
  5. Bible teaches absolute truth and not up to the private interpretation of its writers (John 17:17 and 2 Peter 1:20-21) –  progressives believe there is no absolute truth, but whatever your truth is considered the truth.
  6. We are to make disciples of the whole nation (Matthew 28:19-20) – progressives believe that since only God can draw man to Himself (right), then we are not to be involved in converting people (wrong).
  7. Homosexuality is a sin (Leviticus 18:22 and Romans 1:26-27) – progressives refuse to believe that the bible even teaches this belief.  That somehow the scriptures are misunderstood and taken out of context; or that the admonitions against homosexuality don’t apply to our time.
  8. God created male and female with different purposes (Ephesians 5:22-33) – progressives believe that there are no boundaries in genders. Women are told not to submit to anyone.
  9. God created the Universe (Genesis 1:1) – progressives believe evolution is not incompatible to Christianity
  10. God never changes (Malachi 3:6 and Hebrews 13:8) – progressives believe God’s word changes with societal changes

(This information I gathered about the progressives I found in the various sources listed at the end of this post.)

For a group that thrives on the scriptures that speak of loving one another, why would I say they hate Jesus? Along with their scriptures of loving God and one another, Jesus also makes clear who actually loves him:

“If you love Me, keep My commandments.” John 14:15

“He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.” John 14:21

“You are My friends if you do whatever I command you.” John 15:14

Either you love Christ or you hate Him. Either you’re obeying Him or you’re not.  There’s no in between. Progressive Christians are full of disobedience just judging by the list above.  Of course by now they may be hollering, “judge not, that ye be not judged.” But don’t they know Christians can judge one another?

“I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner—not even to eat with such a person.

For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside? But those who are outside God judges. Therefore “put away from yourselves the evil person.” 1 Corinthians 5:9-13

Progressive Christians despise God’s word when it comes to hating sin. They will only talk about God’s love and watch the hate they spew once they find you don’t support their beliefs.  But remember God’s warnings regarding false teachers (2 Timothy 4:2-4) and differing gospels:

“I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.” Galatians 1:6-9

I don’t consider progressive Christians true Christians but because they call themselves such then they are admonished as such.  But if anyone reading this is a progressive believer, run from it as fast as you can and turn to the true Jesus Christ and His call for repentance and new birth!

“. . . Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” John 3:3

__________________________________________

Articles in favor of Progressive Christianity

The Inevitability of the Rise of Progessive Christianity – by John Shore; http://johnshore.com/2011/09/19/the-inevitability-of-the-rise-of-liberal-christianity/

Grassroots Progressive Christianity – Hal Taussig – http://www.sdc.unitingchurch.org.au/WestarProgressiveArticle.pdf

8 Points of Progressive Christianity – From the The Center for Progressive Christianity – http://www.tcpc.org/news/item.cfm?news_id=569

The Progressive Christian Alliance – http://www.progressivechristianalliance.org/Blog/about/

Thruway Christians – http://thruwaychristians.com/about/

_________________________________________

Other Articles that counter Progressive Christianity

Fruit of the New Progressive Theology Advanced by the Emerging Church – Ken Silva – http://apprising.org/2010/04/05/fruit-of-the-new-progressive-theology-advanced-by-the-emerging-church/

The Emergent Church is a form of Paganism – John MacArthur – http://www.gty.org/resources/Articles/A277/The-Emergent-Church-is-a-Form-of-Paganism#.To2DI3JSDiE

What is Progressive Christianity, and is it biblical? – Got Questions?.org – http://www.gotquestions.org/progressive-Christianity.html

Jim Wallis, Shane Claiborne and Progressive Christianity – Dave Hunt - http://www.bibleprophecyblog.com/2011/01/jim-wallis-shane-claiborne-and.html

modified 10/26/11

© 2011 – 2014, Carlotta Morrow. All rights reserved.

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60 Comments »

  1. lockwoodnow says:

    I think that “darkness” and “light” are metaphors, not for doctrine per se but for truth and deception, enlightenment versus religious propaganda, reality versus theories that cannot be substantiated.

    The wise person seeks truth, not indoctrination. The Jesus of scripture goes so far as to identify himself with truth: In effect, Jesus is truth, and truth is Jesus or closely aligned to Jesus. According to this view, people who deliberately perpetuate cleverly designed fables in order to lead people away from simple, demonstrable reality, cannot qualify as representatives of Jesus, in my view.

  2. Liadan says:

    You said I believe “Y”. I told you I don’t, I believe “X”. That’s correcting your falsehood about me, not judging you. I will be happy to go through your list when I have time, but its very easy to do the research yourself too. Reading this page the other so upset me, I felt spiritually assaulted. It will be hard for me to go through this again.

    Why is it I never see JOY or Love on fundamentalist pages? But, I’m repeating myself.

    • Carlotta Morrow
      Twitter: christocentric
      says:

      Liadan if your or my Xs and Ys contradict the scripture, that should be our main concern. This is not about hurting someone’s feelings but speaking the truth of the scriptures. God is not just seeking worshippers, but those who will worship Him in spirit AND in truth (John 4:23).

      But on the other hand, if I am doing something ungodly in the manner that I’m sharing the truth, that needs to be addressed as well. So do feel free to share the spiritual assaults directed at you so that I may correct them if needed.

  3. Liadan says:

    Wow…I am proudly a Progressive christian, and very sad that I have to even put “Progressive” since Christianity, itself, is progressive. I read what you write about progressives and think ‘that’s not progressive Christianity”, I don’t know anyone that thinks like that, or that’s a distortion of what we believe.

    You know so little about yes, yet feel perfectly justified in judging us, insulting us, in putting us down. If that is the Christianity you subscribe to…judging and bearing false witness, ignoring the log in your eye…then I thank God that is not my Christ and not my Christianity.

    Christ says Love covers over a multitude of sins. I pray you find love and stop focusing on who to hate.

    • Carlotta Morrow
      Twitter: christocentric
      says:

      This whole blog post Liadan was written in response to what some Christians were defining what it meant to be progressive. Much of what is written about progressive Christianity I find contrary to scripture and will expose it as such. Exposing heretical teachings especially when done in the name of Christ is what we are urged to do. Please reread the scriptures that I shared in the post that I spoke about in Galatians and 1 Corinthians. Let me add another verse:

      8 For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light 9 (for the fruit of the Spirit[a] is in all goodness, righteousness, and truth), 10 finding out what is acceptable to the Lord. 11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them.

      So no Liadan, we are not to sit quietly and watch as all kinds of false doctrine infiltrate our churches. We are to expose it which unfortunately comes under “judging.” But again, reading the scriptures that I shared in the post you will see that it is quite scriptural for Christians to judge one another.

      • Liadan says:

        But you don’t judge us accurately. You put words in our mouths and say that is what we believe. That’s judging falsely and with arrogance.

        Why do so many Christians take delight in pointing fingers at others? I was very sad and depressed after reading your post. If I were an alien who had to describe Christianity to others, I’d only be able to say ‘they are people who hate others and take great delight in pointing out others faults.’

        Spiritual abuse of the church is the reason I left it for so many years and have only recently come back.

        What you call ‘false’ doctrine, I call Christ’s love. That is Christianity to me and so seldom seen anymore.

        • Carlotta Morrow
          Twitter: christocentric
          says:

          Liadan, you accuse me of falsely judging you but would you mind sharing with me and others how so? Do you believe that Christ’s love is all about being nice and cheerful but never about discipline and reproof?

          I have done no differently than what you yourself are doing. You believed there is wrongdoing and you are kindly pointing that out. I could take offense but I won’t because you really haven’t explained to what wrongs I am actually doing. Hopefully you will take the time and share that with me.

    • boltman says:

      I am also progressive and believe that Christianity is progressive because it moves forward and is not restricted by those stuck in the law but freed by the Grace of God to make a difference – if all we are here to do is to judge then we are not living in the Grace of God that comes to us in sacrifice of Christ on the Cross, which comes with no strings attached. If we only worry about what happens after death then we do not have life or the life God intended. To be so concerned about what seems the “sin” of others distracts from the purpose of living in the Grace of God – let God take care of Sin, which is what the Cross of Christ is/was is all about!

      • Carlotta Morrow
        Twitter: christocentric
        says:

        Boltman, “sins of others” that you believe distract from God’s grace is something that we must beware of on a couple of fronts. First, we must be able to judge where a person stands in their relationship with God in order to share the gospel. And secondly, church discipline is something that must be practiced by every church to weed out the hypocrites and rebellious believers. A healthy church is comprised of repentant sinners, although imperfect but who are willing to show their salvation legitimate by obeying Christ out of their love for Him. Of course only God knows who is truly saved or not but we do have to exercise godly judgement of one another.

        The bible is consistent in it’s purposes of God’s word:

        “All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.”

        Just based upon those scriptures you should be able to see it’s not all about being nice to one another, but true love and obedience exercises righteous judgement as well.

      • Liadan says:

        Bless you. God is about love, grace, and mercy. I saw only hate and judgment in the original post. I saw only those things that caused me spiritual trauma. When I learned to separate God from some of His followers was I able to return to Him.

        Christ said “Love covers a multitude of sins.” I may be wrong in how I worship, but I try to love all, to interpret scripture in Love. If there is no love there, God is not there either. If I am wrong, I am forgiven.

        I find too much ‘Christianity’ today to be only about hating gays and liberals, only about finger pointing and judgment and not about themselves, to much about death and after life and not about the present and life. Is there nothing more that they get from God’s teachings? I do not want to be part of a death cult, a Spanish Inquisition.

        1 Corinthians 1- 13
        If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast,b but do not have love, I gain nothing.

        4Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

        8Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears. 11When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. 12For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

        ****13And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.*****

        Of all the Laws…these THREE remain: faith, hope and LOVE.

        Not condemnation (that is not man’s right.). Not judgement (for you will be judged the same–intolerance met with intolerance, anger with anger, cruelty with cruelty).

        Romans 13:8
        Do not owe anyone anything—except to love one another. For the one who loves another has fulfilled the Law.

        Romans 13:10
        Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

        This, to me, is Progressive Christianity.

  4. Michelle says:

    What should a Christian do if they are in a progressive church? My husband and I joined this church 3 years ago and it seemed like a good church but the more we stayed the more I began to feel uncomfortable with what was being preached and learning who my pastor really was. He is a good man but he does “cringe” when sin is preached because he himself does not really preach against sin. He preaches mainly out of the Old Testament. I feel he does not like the New Testament because it deals with sin and living holy which is offensive to progressive pastors today. I was looking for the cross in our church and when I found it, it was in the back area and not the front. We had a good Christian motto for our church but since we are trying to move into a new building our motto is no longer Christ-centered, I think. And I had even heard him speak of this “progressive” mindset, not knowing all of what he meant but I do now. All of what you wrote doesn’t apply to him but some does. He is a liberal democrat and most of his preachers, my husband included, knows not to “kick against the pricks” with him. I feel we need to leave this church but I know I have to wait on my husband for this move. It scares me to leave and there are some wonderful people there but I am not settled in spirit being there. I am really tired of the O.T. sermons that leave me “confused.” I know that sounds bad but I can’t explain it all right now. But any advise here would be nice. This is the first time I have been on this website and I have enjoyed the readings. I feel like someone finally understands me. God bless.

    • Carlotta Morrow
      Twitter: christocentric
      says:

      Michelle, glad you are enjoying this website!

      You are truly in a tough position. If you weren’t married, you’d simply just leave and find another church that doesn’t make you uncomfortable. But married, you are very wise to take your spouse into consideration. If the church does teach the gospel of Jesus Christ (but how could they if the pastor doesn’t like talking about sin, right?) and Christ is taught as being the Son of God and equal to God then I’d pray and wait on your husband to leave that church and follow him. If the church is downright unbiblical, such as a Jehovah’s witness or Mormon church where Christ isn’t even taught as deity, then husband or not, I’d run as fast as I could from there!

      If you do a search on “How to choose a church” there are a number of links that give some pretty good information. This one here, What factors one should consider when choosing a church, gives some pretty good tips in what to look for in a church. I would share that with your husband and see if you both would agree you need to leave and where to go. In the meanwhile, I’d just do personal bible study uses the resources online to increase your faith and knowledge in God’s word until you end up in a very good bible teaching church.

      Hope this helps a little bit but I’m definitely praying for your situation!

      (Re-edited 11:09 am PST – 12/22/13)

  5. The reports we have from Luke, Mark, John, Matthew, Peter, James, Paul, etc. are reports. News. Yes there are deductions and revelations as to what this news means for us but in the first place the word gospel means news, good news.

    So what is the news? Let’s start with one central part of this news, the words of Jesus to His disciples after He has risen from the dead:

    “Handle me and see, a ghost does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have.”

    So here is there report to us. We watched Jesus be nailed to a cross. We took his body from the cross. He was dead. We put him in a tomb. Then His tomb was empty when we went there. But then He appeared to us, not as a ghost but in His risen body. We could handle him. We touched Him. We watched Him eat in His risen body.

    This is all a paraphrase of course but the news report is that Jesus stood there in that room that day and said to them “Handle me…” So we all must start with this news before we go off on tangents as to what this all means. If a person does not believe this news, that Jesus was handled by the disciples in His risen body after He had been tortured to death and died, then that person IS NOT a believer in the news reports and that persons who says he believes in Jesus is making up his own religion. In the very first place, faith in Jesus Christ is NOT a religion. It is a belief in news reports about Him and that He was handled by these men and women after His death and handled in a uniquely risen body.

    Once this truth of history is accepted, you can get started with your theology. But if you reject this as true historical news, you are making up a religion.

  6. Gabe says:

    The world’s effectively armed with intellectual advancement to argue against God. Appealing to people’s reasoning does not illuminate their hearts with God’s truth. It’s not intellectual arguements that blinded them: it’s the god of this world. Instead, in true love, let’s together raise prayers for their deliverance. Jesus is still the saviour, the Holyspirit still convicts of sin. Let’s not be like the law that reveals sin but doesn’t empower to overcome(Rom8and9 ).

    • Liadan says:

      And yet, that is what you do…only reveal sin…of others! What you call ‘love’, I see abuse. I see paranoia. I don’t see love, grace, mercy, kindness.

      I see a parable of an abusive husband, beating his wife, and saying ‘look what you make me do. I do this because I love you.’

      (The ‘you’ is general and not directed at Gabe).

  7. Dmsc says:

    Oh please. You shout Beware! of anyone who doesn’t interpret the bible exactly like you do in your church! Beware of Catholics (who had Christianity for a thousand years before Protestantism and God didn’t strike them down)! Beware of Mormons and Jehovah’s and progressives and liberals and the orthodoxy and the seventh day Adventists!! All false preachers!! Don’t you know anything? There are hundreds upon hundreds of Christian sects in the world at this time, literally billions of Christians today whose faith has eveolved over centuries into an interpretation totally different from your own (Coptics anyone?). There have been hundreds throughout the centuries that have been declared heretics by the more powerful sects and massacred (Cathars, Waldensians). It makes me sick that after centuries of bloodshed Christians today still haven’t learned anything and continue to segregate themselves and declare their one small sect’s interpretation of Gods word the only valid one and condemn everyone else. It’s sick. But have fun with your feelings of righteous superiority over all the Christians of all time and I will pray that it won’t ultimately devolve into a movement that murders like so many with your ideology have throughout history.

  8. amanda says:

    http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/mysticism-bennett.html try this website also as you study more into progressive christianity i think what you you might find is quite disturbing. one scripture comes to mind matthew 24:24

  9. Frank says:

    This is my first comment here , I felt compelled to post, I have had a born again experience just a bit over 8 yrs now , the God experience led me to deep study of scripture, never again would I let a man guide me intellectually down a wrong path based on there perceptions of biblical events and teachings. I can Truthfully say this with pure honest convictions in my heart, and that is, that Progressive Christianity is dangerous and totally unbiblical, here in Canada, the United Church of Canada which is progressive in nature not only has Gay pastors in the pulpits but also atheists who are ministering, atheist who wear priestly attire like Greta Vosper or Professor John Domenic Crossan , these people head the progressive movement, use biblical Christian terminology but do not believe a God Truly exists, they merely believe that the CONCEPT of God is a good one to have faith in, but an actual supernatural being that we call God simply does not exist, so because of that, they also must reject supernaturalism and its biblical claims that are found in the Resurrection, Miracles and a personal relations with a Creator. They also believe that Truth is subjective to the individual believer and that Truth is not Objective nore does it have an Objective Source (Holy Spirit) , and the reason for that is because the movement rejects a personal being that which we call God.

    Of course not all of its members believe that but that is the type of teaching that is filtered down and into the pews from professors like Vospar, Crossan & Marcus Borg.

    I have been a member of a progressive chat form now for 3 yrs and its very difficult at times to see the un biblical truths claimed but i post from time to time in the hopes that some new comers will see the Light of Truth, I welcome all to join , its free @
    http://www.wondercafe.ca/

    all i ask is that you please post with Love and Kindness which are the fruits of the Spirit.

    • Carlotta Morrow
      Twitter: christocentric
      says:

      Thank you Frank for your wonderful and insightful comments! I thought progressive Christianity HERE was dangerous! Atheist ministers? With the state of today’s churches, I’m not surprised! So sad that churches are leaving the truth to serve lies but you are right. There is still hope for many to come to the The Truth. Thanks again for sharing, and I will take a look at the discussions you have going on there.

  10. RDavis says:

    Ms. Morrow,
    I think that we have a clear case of one (you) who does not fully understand the challenge that the Gospel places before us as it relates to how we treat the least of these.
    Your understanding of the scriptures are only used to accommodate what you think you’ve already figured out. Love is the overarching ethic in the gospel of Jesus Christ, that is loving the Lord God with our Hearts, Spirit, and MIND (use your mind), and your neighbor as your self . . .
    Jesus commissioned us to make DISCIPLES, not enemies. This is impossible without LOVE. So-called conservative Christians many times want to encamp and sling darts at the THEMS and THOSES outside the covering. I seek to pull them in however slowly with the magnificent love of GOD. You are sowing and will reap deception (remember Christians can judge Christians)

    • Carlotta Morrow
      Twitter: christocentric
      says:

      Again RDavis, you are on my blog spewing statements without any examples to back them up. You are also showing that you truly do not understand the gospel and what it means to be a Christian standing in its defense.

      Yes Christ commissioned us to make disciples and to be peacemakers, but He also warns us that the gospel will bring division – no peace to those who oppose it!

      “Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword. For I have come to ‘set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law’; and ‘a man’s enemies will be those of his own household.’ – Matthew 10:34-36

      If we can be at odds with our own household, what do you think about those outside of our households? So love in the Christian world isn’t going to be all honky dory and all’s well that ends well type of living. There will be times when things will get sticky and our swords will be drawn and prepared for spiritual war armed with the whole armor of God! (Ephesians 6:10-20)

      So yes, make disciples we do but enemies just come along with the territory!

      Jesus speaking:”And you will be hated by all for My name’s sake.” Luke:21:17

  11. ReneB says:

    Thank you for the link. I read it but it does not explain what Paul meant in 1 Cor 7:12.

    Do you reject what Paul says in 1 Cor 7:12 when he says “I, not the Lord, says…”?

    I do not reject Paul’s writings. I find them to be an inspiration as a historical account of a fellow Jesus follower who loves Jesus. But I will not commit blasphemy and say Paul is God and Paul’s words are the Lord’s words.

    James in Acts 15 says Christians should not eat food sacrificed to idols while Paul disagrees with James and says it is fine in 1 Cor 8. Who is right?

    If, like me, you regard neither as the words of the Lord but the words of fellow disciples, then you will accept both opinions of James and Paul as equally valid. But if you choose to say that both men are somehow channeling the words of the Lord, then you must decide which one is right. James, the brother of Jesus who spent years with the physical Jesus, or Paul, who saw Jesus in a vision. If you say that Paul was right and James was not, then why do you give more preference to Paul than James?

    And if you say that both are the words of the Lord but Paul’s later revelation supersedes James’s earlier revelation, then why would the Lord change his mind, giving one of the early apostles and leader of the Jerusalem church one thing, and something different to a later apostle?

    By saying that Paul’s words are the Lord’s words you also show that you reject the writings of Paul, by contradicting 1 Cor 7:12.

    All I ask is a simple answer for these simple questions.

    God bless you richly with compassion and a heart of Justice.

    • Carlotta Morrow
      Twitter: christocentric
      says:

      I don’t reject what Paul says in that verse because to me he’s only clarifying what was direct revelation from the Lord and what was direct from him only. Paul was chosen by Christ as an apostle (Galatians 1:1) and has been given the authority to impart words to fellow Christians. So to say that what Paul has written is wrong is to place yourself in the position in deciding what is right and what is wrong in the Bible. All one has to do is check if what Paul teaches is ever contrary to what Christ teaches. For example, Christ says that marriage between a man and a woman was created by God in the beginning and should never be placed asunder by man (Matthew 19:3-6). Paul’s condemnation of homosexuality in Romans 1:26-27 is very consistent to Christ’s teaching.

      So all in all, there is yet anyone to convince me that Paul’s writings in the bible should be ignored and no, I don’t get confused the words of God Himself and the words of Paul. Paul’s words are very much in line to what is considered godliness and how we as Christians should strive to live. I find no contradictions in the bible but there are differing dispensations and clear explanations of which I don’t have the time to get into. As long as you have the spirit of supporting sin, you will always be able to find someway to support your theories and ignore truth.

  12. ReneB says:

    I also consider myself a Progressive Christian after being an Evangelical for 28 years, as well as being a missionary to West Africa and a theological student.

    Many progressives like me WERE Evangelical and progressed from that after a lifetime of service to God and much theological and historical study.

    Progressive Christianity is very broad, and not all believe in Liberal theology. In fact, many would consIder themselves both post-conservative, and post-liberal, and have progressed from the theological divisiveness and political mentality of many of the 39,000 different Christian denominations.

    Because of it’s broadness, there is no one progressive theology, as it accepts a number of different approaches. Spong, Borg, and Campolo all come within the progressive camp but hold different theologies. In fact, there are progressive evangelicals and progressive Catholics too, who believe in all the miracles of Jesus as well as the resurrection.

    The main thing that marks a progressive is an open heart and an open mind, a focus on social justice and to treat people as Jesus would, living a life of compassion. This is why we care about the right to love for gay people, and focus more on the oppression of the poor, exploited and rejected than about converting people to a system of interpretations of the Bible. Many see the Bible as a reord of our spiritual heritage, and show the diverse interpretations of humanity’s experience of the sacred. Paul vs James, Circumcision, kosher food etc. progressives love to study. We like to read church history which can show us the thousands of different interpretations Christians have developed over the years.

    Because of our love for God while we were Evangelicals, many of us studied hard to be the best we could be, but that made us realize that Evangelicalism is only one interpretation of many, that in fact departs from historical Christianity – many of Evangelicalism’s interpretations were developed in the 17th and 18th century.

    For the majority of Catholics in the world, Evangelicals are the heretics. For many Orthodox, Catholics are the heretics. Everyone is a heretic in somebody else’s eyes, and of course in yours, Progressives are the heretics.

    Anyway, just thought you should know that things might not be exactly how you think it is,

    God Bless.

    • Carlotta Morrow
      Twitter: christocentric
      says:

      Thanks for sharing Rene, but Progressives all do share one thing in common: the picking and choosing of biblical beliefs. Progressives have diluted God’s word so badly that many have decided not to consider you all Christians at all. You all talk about God’s love, but obedience to God’s word is proof that you love Him (John 14:15, John 15:14). Not only do you not obey His word but you don’t believe His words to even begin obeying them! One example, the scriptures says homosexuality is a sin, Progressives say it’s not. It is one thing to love gays, but quite another to tell them that they are okay to love anyone they want.

      I know that there are differing beliefs among Progressives, but the bottom line is that much biblical disobedience characterizes your group and a major reason why the warnings of people not to participate in your ungodly teachings.

      • ReneB says:

        I disagree. You yourself probably do not obey the old covenant laws known as the 613 Mitzvot. Why? Jesus fulfilled the old covenant and gave us 1Law instead.

        John 13:34
        A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

        Do not mix up Jesus and Paul. Even Paul’s says: 1 Corinthians 7:12 To the rest I say this (I, not the Lord)…

        Many Christians commit blasphemy when they say that Paul’s words are the words of Jesus or the words of God. Even Paul makes it clear that his words are not the Lord’s words.

        Progressives are more Christocentric, while evangelicals are Paulocentric.

        If Jesus was here in the flesh today, I am sure without a doubt, that just like he criticized the Pharisees and was regarded insultingly as the Friend of Sinners and a drunkard, that he would criticise the Neo-Pharisee evangelicals and once again be the Friend of Sinners and regarded as immoral and ‘ungodly’.

        Which is why I am glad that I can say that Jesus is my friend, whether or not Neo-Pharisees want to label us Christians or not.

        Just because Evangelicals call him Lord, Lord, one day Jesus will reply to them Matthew 7:21
        “Not everyone who calls out to me, ‘Lord! Lord!’ will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Only those who actually do the will of my Father in heaven will enter.

        Those who do not follow the 1 commandment of Jesus to love do not know Jesus and do not know God’s will.

        Matt 21:31
        Which of the two did the will of his father?” They said, “The first.” Jesus said to them, “Truly, I say to you, the tax collectors and the prostitutes go into the kingdom of God before you.

        When I die I know that as a progressive, he will say to me, well done, good and faithful servant. And I know that his grace is sufficient to forgive the Evangelicals for their hard heartedness.

        May God bless you and show you his heart.

        • Carlotta Morrow
          Twitter: christocentric
          says:

          If you reject the writings of Paul then you reject Christ. People who reject the Pauline epistles usually do so to justify their own sin, or support of another’s sin and in the case of the Progressives, it’s homosexuality, feminism, and etc. This blogger here has expressed my sentiments which I won’t go into detail for the time being because of other lengthy projects that I am currently working on. I’ll share this website but I’m sure you already have your arguments prepared. http://godsbreath.wordpress.com/2011/04/28/so-you-reject-paul/

          • ReneB says:

            I hope you don’t take what I say in the wrong way. I do not hate Evangelicals at all, although I may not agree with the things I used to believe. Many of my friends are sincere Evangelicals who were my mission partners and fellow preachers. Some, I brought to Christ away from Atheism and being Jehovah’s Witnesses.

            I’m not American, so I care little about whether a person is a Republican or Democrat. Abraham Lincoln was an honourable Republican who was also a Universalist, believing that there was no eternal punishment, while Billy Graham is a famous Evangelical Democrat as well as Jimmy Carter who had a heart for the oppressed, poor and those needing justice. However graham does not regard himself as a progressive evangelical while carter does. Does that mean I respect one person more?

            No! All three were followers of Jesus even if they have slightly different theological perspectives and interpretations. But it is up to you if you wish to label one or more of them as not really Christian because of one theological issue or another.

            Once again, as a progressive, I don’t mind what my Evangelcal friends and family believe, as long as they keep following Jesus.

            God bless you with the Mind of Christ.

          • Carlotta Morrow
            Twitter: christocentric
            says:

            All I care is that one becomes born again and as they grow in their love for our Lord, their lives will change accordingly. Following Jesus without a true rebirth will lead one to nowhere!

    • lockwoodnow says:

      Well spoken, Rene. I have been a serious student of scripture for most of my life, having been “saved” in, I think it was in 1963 (I did not record the date in my bible but the experience is still fresh in my mind. I was a member of an Assembly of God church for over 25 years. I served as a Royal Ranger leader (was given the Frontiersmen’s Camping Fraternity spirit name of “Badger), sang in the choir, taught adult Sunday School classes, was a member of Gideon’s International distributing bibles, led several people to Christ including members of my own family and those outside the family as well, and so on and so forth. I was filled with the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues.

      And, I read the bible every day. After about ten or fifteen years of this, when the preaching became so predictable that I could have told in advance what was going to be said, I started reading the bible in Spanish, for a challenge and also to get new insights. I learned that languages do not translate. Sorry, they just do not. Every translation is an approximation only. Also, I learned that no translation is objective: Translators inject their own biases even if they do not want to. We cannot even SEE our own biases.

      I studied the notes in the margins, which was an elightening experience in itself. I looked things up in Young’s Analytical Concordance of the Bible. I read in the front of this massive book, where Young described the conventions, methods and challenges of interpretation that went along with the making of every translation.

      And I lived, and learned, not just from the bible but from my experiences as well. And then, I did the unthinkable: I asked myself, what if? What if the assumptions I have been making all along were incorrect? The evidence was pointing strongly in that direction by then. What if the bible were written as all books are written, sincere men interpreting their own experiences? How would that change my understanding.

      Well, to make a long story short, once I started to entertain that possibility, I began to see things that were so obvious, but that I had not allowed myself to see, because it was against the rules.

      Against the rules that one scripture should contradict another scripture.

      Against the rules that Christianity would change over time.

      Against the rules that Paul had a different gospel than James and John.

      Against the rules that say, the Old and New Testaments can never really contradict each other.

      Against the rules that the different writers of the gospels would contradict one another in ways that just cannot be explained away.

      Oh, I know, I used to say I saw no contradictions too, just like some of you. Well, that was because the rules were set up to prevent you from seeing what is really there. “If something contradicts my beliefs, it must be wrong,” you tell your self. And you are sincere, because your teachers have indoctrinated you that if you listen to such “trash” as they call it,” you will burn forever in hell. Well, that’s a pretty strong incentive that you will never get to inquisitive isn’t it?

      So I know and understand perfectly where Rene is coming from. Most or many of us came to become Progressives, not willingly but dragging our feet, trying to shut off our minds, trying to plug our ears and not hear the truth. But Jesus allegedly said, “I am the Truth.” You cannot be a good servant of God if you are constantly lying to yourself. If you want to know more, I will be most happy to reason with you, but please don’t give me the circular arguments from the book of Timothy as your only point of reference. Or if you do, at least know what Timothy was referring to, seeing as the New Testament had not been written, and seeing as the New Testament quotes books that are not included in our bibles, quotes them as “scripture.”

      Well, I am tiring of this rant now. I will turn it back to the rest of you.

  13. amanda says:

    so let me get this straight according to progressive X i wouldnt even call them christians. they say We as concervative christians all come from white upper or middle upper class people,who are pretty much white biggots. let me remind you that their are many conservative christians of all colors of the rainbow and different of all different social classes. I Grew up in a poor family in the slums of the City and those whom i call my friends and family are all colors of the rainbow. Further more you use those who have called themselves conservative christians but their fruits obviously measured against scripture don,t show them to be christ-like and paint a broad spectrum of us all. I dont consider myself any better than anyone else as you say we are full of pride , but if you only knew the mess that the lord brought me out of. but i guess then maybe you would say Jesus is prideful to cause he taught that you needed to repent from your sins and folllow him. and that those who do the will of his Father in heaven are the ones who truly love him. you fail to mention that jesus commanded us to preach this very message to all nations. your are right on saying that God does not need us to draw men to him it is by his grace and mercy that all humanity is still here.God would be justified and even if he wiped out all humanity his glory would not diminish. wake up your being foolish thankfully God didnt wipe out all of humanity and through his unending love for us sent his only begotten son to atone for all our sins so we could be forgiven. what part of john 3:16 didnt you get John 3:16
    New International Version (NIV)
    16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.what part of the teaching of Jesus didn,t you get john 14:13Jesus replied, “If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.mark 16:15He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation.matthew 7:21 21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’natthew 7:13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.matthew 10:22All men will hate you because of me, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.1 corinthians 6:2Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if you are to judge the world, are you not competent to judge trivial cases? it is you my friends who need to humble yourselves before the lord and let go of your pride and stop treating the bible like its a burger king menu picking and choosing what you want to believe and treating God like hes some geni in a bottle like he will fit into your tiny box called society. Remind your selves of proverbs 1:7The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge, but fools despise wisdom and discipline. God is the same today. Hebrews 13:8Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever. you do not fear God because you refuse to obey what he commands you to do therefore you have become blind. 2 corinthians 4:4Satan, who is the god of this world, has blinded the minds of those who don’t believe. They are unable to see the glorious light of the Good News. They don’t understand this message about the glory of Christ, who is the exact likeness of God

    • lockwoodnow says:

      Amanda, you are right on this count: Evangelical Christians and fundamentalists too, come in all different stripes, all different nationalities and all different income brackets. I will give you that much.

      I will go even further and say that Jesus really has saved people. Saved them from all kinds of things. Saved them from themselves, from bad habits, from crime and more. That’s the power of faith and it is to be commended.

      This does not necessarily mean that everything you were taught is right, or even close to right. Just saying ….

  14. amanda says:

    wow it amazing how they can say people dont need too turn away from sin and focus more on solving the worlds problems and social-injustice. the very fact of the matter that all social injustice and the problems of the world can be traced back to a mans sin. So how are we to make the world a peaceful place by teaching them that they dont need to turn away from there sin? Yes there are people who sin in the bible but it never teaches that God is ok with it. Imagine what this world would be like if people didn,t need to turn away from there sin there would be a bunch of murderers,theives and husbands cheating on their wives and the list goes on. the peace sign is the cross broken wake up poeople! are you serious? If God didnt love us then he would allow this to happen but i thank him that he sent his son to die on the cross so people could be set free from there sins and forgiven

    • lockwoodnow says:

      Amanda, I think you would have to go a long ways to find a Progressive Christian that thinks there is no need of repentance. Evangelicals have mystified repentance. Repentance means you stop doing things that are harmful to yourself and to others. It means you have a change of direction. And this is not a one time experience: It is a way of live. Repentance and personal transformation are at the center of Progressive Christianity as I understand it, every bit as much so as social work. You can’t really have one without the other. There is, indeed, a mystical element to Progressive Christianity.

  15. amanda says:

    it upsets me that these people will say that they teach about love yet the have no idea what love truly is. here is an example that the Jesus you clame to know was persecuted for and nailed to a cross among many other things that he did with this same teaching. And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,

    4They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.

    5Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?

    6This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.

    7So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

    8And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.

    9And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.

    10When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?

    11She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more. Have they no idea how much love it takes to preach a message that you know is unpopular and you could get persecuted because you dont want others to be damned to hell. Keep in mind that i cry out to the lord sometimes till i fall asleep for the lost cause i was once bond in sin myself and i can boldly proclaim that Jesus has made me a new creation and that i have turned away from sin and continue to and feel alive in jesus. I dont claim to be perfect i am a sinner saved by grace and unconditionally loved and it is by the grace and mercy of God that i continue on the path of righteousness.

    • Carlotta Morrow
      Twitter: christocentric
      says:

      Amanda, very glad to see that you were just as upset as I was in seeing the gospel of Christ being misused and abused by this wolf in sheep’s clothing called Progressive Christianity. It’s difficult to comprehend how someone can claim to love Jesus, but then show how much they actually hate Him. Non-Christians not believing is understandable, but those who call themselves Christians it’s quite blasphemous!

      Your comments and scriptures were right on target! Thank you for them! :)

  16. amanda says:

    thankyou for posting this site it has confirmed what i already believed about this group through a separate study on there on website. I have prayed and have been in my bible while studying about this group and the lord lead me to many scriptures. what lead me to do research on this group is a dear friend of mine who has recently joined this group. I worry for him please pray for me and for him as well his name is amaury. i dont know him very well but i know he loves the lord. In the end times satan will do anything to lead Gods children astray by any means. as i read this i grow excedingly more afraid for him and i just feel like bawling my eyes and crying out to the lord for him.

    matthew 24:24For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect–if that were possible.

  17. Ed Hassertt says:

    Its amazing the lies in this post! As a Progressive Christian Pastor the only things on your list that describe me are 7,8,9. But as is typical when we shed Jesus words to love our enemeies, to turn the other cheek and to walk the extra mile, we become attack dogs instead. The truth doesn;t matter as long s you feel you are righteous in your attack! You have created a straw man and then labelled it Progressive Christianity. In talking with other progressive Christians i cannot find a single one that agrees with your false accusations against us! You describe something that is not us and then use it to attack us. Is that Christian charity and character in your book?

    • Carlotta Morrow
      Twitter: christocentric
      says:

      Ed, you have every opportunity to prove me wrong. So my challenge to you is you present your website that states your beliefs. I did not lie as I have plenty of written evidence to back up what I write about. The sources listed on my website are from known progressive Christianity sites and do confirm what I write about.

      I guess the problem here is the matter of semantics. Progressive can mean much but do list your website with your beliefs that describe you as progressive, and I am willing to include it in my list of sources. I may even change the language I use in describing progressives.

      • amanda says:

        its amazing how these people can take the message of what Jesus did for us and turn it completely around. Jesus died on the cross so we could be set free from the bondage of sin and further more so we can be forgiven and reconciled to God. When they preach this message of being bond in sin they insult what my lord and savior did on the cross and it makes me sick. Its like there nailing my savior back to the cross by holding others in bondage to this heresey. I hope and pray that the lord will open up there eyes to the truth and have mercy on them. I know what the scriptures say of those who preach a false doctrine and my heart breaks for them.

        Galations 1:8But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!

  18. Ricky says:

    In reading this article and the comments to it, I felt the need to respond to this.

    I have accepted the Lord Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior and now live by His Word, the Holy Bible! My testimony is that I was a lover of sin, I engaged in homosexual activities, drank until I passed out and many, many fleshly sins.

    Progressive Christianity is doing more harm than good! God’s Word is the final authority and rule that we MUST live by! The Word of God offends those that are living in sin. And to those that it offends, they try to bring God down to their level to justify their sin. We ARE NOT above God’s authority or rule!

    As for Peter Lambert and his higher education of knowledge of the Bible, EVEN SATAN KNOWS THE WORD OF GOD! Satan can preach the Word of God better than the most experienced pastor here on earth! The Bible says, THE WISE SHALL BE FOOLISH AND THE FOOLISH SHALL BE WISE.

    There is nothing new under the sun. God is the same yesterday, today and forever.

    The Bible convicted me of my sin in homosexuality. I have turned away from my old ways because that is what my Heavenly Father has told me to do!

    It just saddens me how progressive Christianity is leading people down the wrong path. All because people want to dumb down the gospel to be acceptable in today’s sinful society.

    The path is wide, but the gates are narrow. The only way to the Father is through Jesus Christ our Lord. I choose everlasting life. I choose to pick up my cross, follow Jesus and deny myself. I will continue to live by the Word of God and take every last word of it to heart. All Praise, Honor and Glory to our Messiah, Yeshua, Jesus Christ. King of Kings. Lord of Lords.

    • Carlotta Morrow
      Twitter: christocentric
      says:

      Thank you Ricky for your very POWERFUL testimonial of God’s true saving grace! You are so right that Progressive Christianity is causing more harm than good because with its many false messages but I am thankful that witnesses such as yourself can share what it truly means to turn from sin and turn to God through His Son Jesus Christ!

  19. Carlotta and Mark
    what leads you to the assumption that i use extra biblical sources? As someone who has the benefit of a theological education in a conservative christian seminary, i take exception to you assumptions.
    Having said education allows me the benefit of reading scripture in its original languages, many of the passages that you rest your beliefs on are ambiguous, and do not benefit at all from translation into english.
    Mark your comment implying I hate Jesus is as best inane and outright insulting, i really think you need to rethink your stance, after all you can not be the judge of someone else’s relationship with Christ.
    Carlotta I would say that poverty and the care of the poor is more important to G-d, while we are on the subject the laws you so freely quote from the old testament include killing a disobedient child. Surely if scripture is to be applied equally and be taken literally as you insist it us, then must we then kill disobedient children? To use your own argument it is only mentioned once but the fact that it is mentioned gives it weight and importance.
    The problem with biblical literalism is that it does indeed give rise to false teaching.
    Without knowing the context and the culture in which the scriptures were written it leads to misinterpretation of scripture culminating in false doctrine. Every theologian in the world recognises that, I suggest for your own benefit enrol in a seminary and learn for yourself the truths scripture actually contain, not the ones you think it is does.

    • Carlotta Morrow
      Twitter: christocentric
      says:

      Peter, that will be the last post you will make on my blog only because it’s going nowhere. Discussions just based upon opinion are not going to cut it on this board and especially if viewed as false teaching, which you are clearly involved in. You don’t agree what scripture plainly says then there’s no further discussion needed.

  20. Pastor Pat Green says:

    Ms. Morrow,

    I would first like to commend you for your obvious love of Christ, our Savior. I also appreciate your love of Scripture and the true narrative that God has given us.

    To be concerned about matters of heresy and those who would do harm in the name of Jesus or of God or of the Holy Spirit is, indeed, something to be concerned about. I know you are a mother of five. My wife and I were only gifted with 1, but as a parent living in today’s world, I share that concern as well.

    I was shocked and disheartened to find that it is me who is the wolf in sheep’s clothing. I was alarmed to learn through your blog that I have been a pastor since 1992 and it would appear that I do not believe in Salvation, the truth of the Bible, the Great Commission and several other things.

    How did I go so many years thinking I believed such things were true only to find you not only inform your readers what I believe and do not believe, but correcting me on what I thought I believed.

    I would correct you on your erroneous use of scripture to substantiate your claims in what is a sloppy hermeneutic befitting a first year seminary student and not to the Biblical acumen you have shown in prior writings, but I doubt that you would recognize or respect the office of my pastorate.

    When you paint an entire group with as broad a brush as you so carelessly did, you risk damaging reputations, families, churches, and communities. You committed harm to me, my community, and the very body of Christ.

    In the spirit of James 3 I implore you to better tame your sharp tongue lest you become one who with reckless abandon spreads strife among brothers, which I do believe is one of the seven things that are an abomination to Him in Proverbs 6.

    May God Bless You and Keep You,

    Pastor Green

    PS Your pastor, who is a good man, will be receiving a written correspondence from me.

    • Carlotta Morrow
      Twitter: christocentric
      says:

      Pastor Green, you spoke eloquently about my offense to you but you really didn’t explain how. Do you care to be more specific? How exactly have I harmed you and how has my tongue been sharp? You made quite a few accusations but with nothing to back them up.

      I’ve never heard of you before today, so please shed some light on whom you are and what you believe.

      Thank you!

    • lockwoodnow says:

      Well spoken Pastor Green!

  21. Mark says:

    If you want to learn how to be a progressive “christian” and overcome “homophobia”, you must first learn how to hate the biblical Jesus. The best way to do that is learn about Jesus from other sources and “knowledge” outside the Bible.

    In addition, I see from some of these comments another “progressive” ideology main stay; defending the Truth is doing hateful violence to another and celebrating differences is more important than those beliefs which actually divide – since “we” all know “we” can all be right while making polar opposite Truth claims.

    Oh, and “sin” isn’t as important has helping the poor ? only in the mind of the unregenerate suppressing the Truth in un righteousness.

    Romans 1:27– For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another, men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

    • Carlotta Morrow
      Twitter: christocentric
      says:

      Thanks Mark and Mathew for your timely comments! The progressives disdain for scripture is evident in their comments as they give no scriptural backup to support their beliefs and that is something you both touch on. You can’t know the true Christ without knowing His word, and His word their are wholly deficient in.

      Hopefully people who are considering following the teachings of this group completely absorb themselves into scripture because the Bible will stand alone in presenting any spiritual truth. My prayer is that they acknowledge their sin, repent and become born-again because right now they are trying to please Jesus without truly knowing Him. The progressives would best be reminded of what Jesus says regarding doing good things while practicing sin:

      “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’ Matthew 7:21-23

    • lockwoodnow says:

      So doing that which is “against nature” is sin? Isn’t that what it says?

  22. george
    Twitter: atravelersnote
    says:

    ideology is that which we defend without ever questioning it; Zizek calls this stupidity, or following something without thinking. The ancient rabbi’s told a myth story about a guy who wrestled with an angel to demonstrate the importance of wrestling with torah (which for a jew is truth; ie, wrestling with truth is the only way to find it. – its much like my good friend pete rollins says: to believe is human, to doubt divine. now, i am all for a variegated collection of ideas, even if there against one another – but as a person who is a speaker and author, one of the things that seems hypocritical about a christianity i left, was that we think we have right to be god or to judge one another and then blame god for our own thoughts, as if to say, we are possessed and our brains have been sucked away by some divine entity that somehow chose to magically fit all of him/herself into one collection of books; not to mention that we all say we follow jesus and then forget that we are to love our enemies and neighbours, for the ancient jew, this was a radical way of thinking, because the neighbour and the enemy wasn’t just someone next to you, it was also who you disagreed with. and what is love, well, if we take pauls word, we use agape, which is about dying to one’s self – and lets’ be honest, most of suck at it, including me, but the whole point is to die to one’s self, so when we defend our belief systems above someone else, that is where we violently fail….

  23. Homosexuality is clearly a sin if it is a hetro male performing a homosexual act thats what scripture actually says, again in regards to idolatry.
    As for science there are over 450 species on earth that exhibit homosexual behaviour and only 1 that is homophobic, so i would hazard a guess that homosexuality is by design of G-d, interesting that you condemn science in one breath then try to use it to validate an argument. At the end of the day we will never know if it is sinful or not, because we aren’t the audience the scriptures were written to, nor are we being contextual in taking scriptures and using them to validate arguments, personally i believe it isn’t a sin, and i wonder that people spend more time focussing on homosexuality than on relieving poverty, there are 13 biblical verses pertaining to homosexuality and over 3000 relating to looking after the poor, homeless, the alien, the widow and the orphan, which one do you think G-d cares about more, i think the answer is pretty obvious

    • Carlotta Morrow
      Twitter: christocentric
      says:

      We’ll agree to disagree at this point and I thank you for sharing your views. I will answer your question later about homosexuality vs homelessness and poverty, and etc.

    • Carlotta Morrow
      Twitter: christocentric
      says:

      Oh, I want to add as far as the animal species are concerned, only one species worships and acknowledges there is a God and that is the human species. I have never seen any of God’s commandments directed at animals as we are given dominion over them (Genesis 1:26-28). We are made in God’s image and not the animals, so for the sake of keeping this conversation where it belongs, we will discuss God and man and not the animals. The Bible’s audience is clearly mankind and not the animal kingdom.

    • Mathew
      Twitter: tweetingoutloud
      says:

      Peter – Carlotta in her article has at least listed scriptural references to support her point of view. At the moment you’ve only accused her of using these out of context, without bothering to explain how, and then you assert that “Homosexuality is clearly a sin if it is a hetro male performing a homosexual act thats what scripture actually says, again in regards to idolatry” without even referencing where.

      Could I ask you for your own references – chapter and verse – so that Carlotta, I and others reading this post, know from what basis you form your views?

    • Carlotta Morrow
      Twitter: christocentric
      says:

      Peter, regarding your comparison of homosexuality to poverty and etc., it is poor reasoning to think that because something is mentioned more in the bible then God cares for it more. Killing and murder also isn’t mentioned as many times as caring for the poor and homeless (and etc.) but it demands our immediate attention when perpetrated against innocent people. Homosexuality is the same. It is now demanding our attention because of its prevalence in everyday life. It is no longer okay just to accept what someone does in their bedroom because now homosexuality has left the privacy behind closed doors and ventured into the public DEMANDING that it be accepted as an acceptable lifestyle.

      The public’s toes are beginning to be stepped upon by the homosexual agenda seeping into our government, military, children’s schools and this list goes on and on. People are tiring of it and yes, although there are many who are accepting homosexuality as ‘ok, but there are many of us who are still repulsed by the immorality of this unnatural sexual lifestyle.

  24. Just a quick reply until i can formulate a more thoughtful response, but I find it interesting that you take scripture out of context to reinforce your arguments, for example on the homosexuality issue you neglect to inform that nearly all of the biblical verses relating to homosexuality are in the context of idolatry.
    I also find it exceptionally disturbing that you judge progressives as sinful because their interpretation of scripture differs from yours. I guess that is where the essential difference lays between fundamentals and progressives, progressives are aware that it is G-ds place to judge, ours is to love…..unconditionally, and to be honest there is little if any love or grace in your article. Judgement and vitriol yes, grace and love no.

    • Carlotta Morrow
      Twitter: christocentric
      says:

      I’m also giving you a quick reply as I am very busy today but I’ll elaborate later. Homosexuality is clearly a sin based upon the scriptures in both the Old Testament (Leviticus 18:22) and New Testament (Romans 1:26-27). These laws were part of a moral code, moral laws that never change. Homosexuality is also considered unnatural and medical science proves that. Male and females fit perfectly where as homosexuals don’t. Male and female can have children and homosexuals is a 0% chance of that ever happening.

      It’s amazing the extent that people will go through to ignore God’s commandments in the bible to justify their sinful actions. And yes, the bible is full of scriptures that command us to judge those who call themselves Christian but not to condemn the non-Christians, as they are already in a state of condemnation. My next blog post will be on judging as there is much too much to write to fit it all here – today.

    • Jimmy Bean says:

      amen, Peter!

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