August 4, 2008

"Speaking In Tongues" – Why We Shouldn't!

The “speaking in tongues” debate has gone on for ages in the Christian church and has been a center point for many divisions among Christian sisters and brothers. Some say they need it for spiritual fulfillment, others say that it is to show evidence of one’s being filled with the spirit, and others say that it’s personal between them and God as their private prayer language while yet others believe that its a known language. Which is it? Is it still in existence today or a gift that is no longer needed? I believe the bible is quite clear on the gifts and their uses, but sadly many well-intentioned believers are misusing God’s gift of speaking in tongues. I believe that tongues that is described in the bible is not the tongues we see or hear among today’s professing Christians. I will give a brief summary of the gift of tongues but for in depth study, I will list references at the end of this post for further research.

One of Many Spiritual Gifts

A problem that runs consistent with many churches is the idea that the gift of tongues should be for every believer. Many say that it is a sign that one has been born again and equipped with the power of the Holy Spirit. But unfortunately, what many are ignoring is what the scriptures say about tongue being one of many gifts of the Holy Spirit and not everyone will have all of these gifts. Here is what the scriptures say:

Now about spiritual gifts, brothers, I do not want you to be ignorant. You know that when you were pagans, somehow or other you were influenced and led astray to mute idols. Therefore I tell you that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit. There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit. There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord. There are different kinds of working, but the same God works all of them in all men.

Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. To one there is given through the Spirit the message of wisdom, to another the message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, 9to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues. All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he gives them to each one, just as he determines. 1 Corinthians 12:1-11

The apostle Paul, the author of the 1st and 2nd letters of Corinthian, makes it clear here that the gift of speaking in different tongues is just one of the many gifts, but all gifts work together as the Spirit of God determines – not as WE determine. That is the key of the verse. There are some of us that have determined that EVERYONE is supposed to have this particular gift, but the scriptures do teach here that God does the determining, and not us. That’s why many of our churches have spiritual gift tests so that we can all get an idea of which gift God has supplied us with. The tests aren’t foolproof of course, but they do give a glimpse on what we may be equipped to do for the body of Christ.

1 Corinthians 12 ends by summarizing:

Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it. And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, also those having gifts of healing, those able to help others, those with gifts of administration, and those speaking in different kinds of tongues. Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues? Do all interpret? But eagerly desire the greater gifts. And now I will show you the most excellent way. 1 Corinthians 12:27-31

The question of “do all…” should show that it is never meant for all of us to have the same gift. The gift of tongues has divided the church tremendously and it’s taken Paul three chapters to expound on the true gifts of the Holy Spirit. He started this chapter “I do not want you to be ignorant.” There is much ignorance in the church regarding spiritual gifts and Paul shows us what we need to know concerning these gifts.

What is the real “Speaking in Tongues?”

The first real occurrence of tongues appears in Acts chapter 2.

When the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place. Suddenly a sound like the blowing of a violent wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them. Now there were staying in Jerusalem God-fearing Jews from every nation under heaven. When they heard this sound, a crowd came together in bewilderment, because each one heard them speaking in his own language. Utterly amazed, they asked: “Are not all these men who are speaking Galileans? Then how is it that each of us hears them in his own native language?

That last verse shows that the language of the speakers were a known language to others! Not babbling, not repeated chants, but a real understandable language. Something that we don’t see much of today.

Paul’s letter to the Corinthians admonishing them on the misuse of “tongues”

Pastor John MacArthur, in his article on the Internet titled “Speaking in Tongues, Part 1,” (ref. 1) he gives a summary on the church at Corinth and the apostle Paul’s letters to them. This is important to see because one has to understand that when Paul writes chapter 14 to the Corinthians, he’s admonishing them, not praising them as some have taken his chapter to mean. See what John MacArthur says here:

1. THE INFILTRATION OF CORINTH INTO THE CHURCH

The Corinthian church had allowed the entire world system in which they existed to infiltrate their assembly. For example, they were emphasizing human philosophies (chapters 1-4), they had a hero worship cult (chapter 3), they were involved in terrible, gross, sexual immorality (chapters 5-6), they were suing each other in court (chapter 6), they had misevaluated their home and marriage relationships (chapter 7), they were confused about pagan feasts, idolatry, and things offered to idols (chapters 8-10), they had relinquished the proper place of women in the church (chapter 11), they had misunderstood the whole dimension of spiritual gifts (chapter 12), and they had lost hold of the one great thing–love (chapter 13).

You see, they had let the satanic system that existed in their society infiltrate the church. And with it came the pagan religious practices–with all of the ecstasies, eroticisms, and sensualities. The Corinthians accepted it all, creating a confused amalgamation of truth and error.

This church is constantly being verbally spanked by Paul, being the spiritual babies that they are in Christ. Once again, Paul has to chastise them and explain to them in detail the gift of Tongues as it should be used.

Follow the way of love and eagerly desire spiritual gifts, especially the gift of prophecy. For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God. Indeed, no one understands him; he utters mysteries with his spirit. But everyone who prophesies speaks to men for their strengthening, encouragement and comfort. He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church. 1 Corinthians 14:1-4

Self-centered tongues

These truths are evident about tongues so far in this chapter:

  1. Men are uttering mysteries to God
  2. No one can understand him
  3. Prophesying edifies the church
  4. Tongues edify self

Anyone who has argued that this tongue is different than the tongues spoken about in Acts 2, is dead on! The tongues in Acts 2 are:

  1. In a known language
  2. Were not being uttered to God but to man
  3. Others were benefiting not self

Not self-edification, but edification of the church!

But is the tongues spoken of in 1 Corinthians receiving praise from Paul? He goes on in this chapter:

I would like every one of you to speak in tongues, but I would rather have you prophesy. He who prophesies is greater than one who speaks in tongues, unless he interprets, so that the church may be edified. 1 Corinthians 14:5

When Paul tells the Corinthians that he would love every one of them to speak in tongues, which tongues does he want them to speak? The self edifying tongues are the ones spoken to others? For understanding or the ones that only God understands? Speaking mysteries or things that will benefit people?

Elements of true tongues

If one is speaking a real language, then there will be one who can interpret. I know, I have heard some interpretation of tongues, but funny thing is that the tongues I’ve heard have been the same type of babbling – but with different interpretations! Not consistent with God-driven languages at all. Continuing in chapter 14:

Now, brothers, if I come to you and speak in tongues, what good will I be to you, unless I bring you some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or word of instruction? 1 Corinthians 14:6

Let’s see here, the important elements that make up tongues must be:

  1. revelation
  2. knowledge
  3. prophecy
  4. instruction

This is extremely important because for those who claim that they have a godly prayer language of tongues, what is it for? Are you receiving self-revelation, new knowledge, prophecy or instructing yourself in another language? That doesn’t even make sense and we know God is not the author of foolishness!

Can anyone understand what you are saying?

The next verses in Chapter 14 are the crux of Paul’s chastising admonishments to the Corinthians. He is clearly not happy with the way that tongues are being used, and with this church rich with pagan practices, the use of tongues is just another misuse of the gifts that God has given them with. Paul admonishes them here:

Even in the case of lifeless things that make sounds, such as the flute or harp, how will anyone know what tune is being played unless there is a distinction in the notes? Again, if the trumpet does not sound a clear call, who will get ready for battle? So it is with you. Unless you speak intelligible words with your tongue, how will anyone know what you are saying? You will just be speaking into the air. Undoubtedly there are all sorts of languages in the world, yet none of them is without meaning. If then I do not grasp the meaning of what someone is saying, I am a foreigner to the speaker, and he is a foreigner to me. So it is with you. Since you are eager to have spiritual gifts, try to excel in gifts that build up the church. 1 Corinthians 14:7-12

Paul again repeats the purpose of true tongues:

  1. Tongues MUST be spoken with intelligible words
  2. Must be understood by others
  3. Must be with meaning
  4. Must be a gift to build up the church

Pray and sing with the understanding and fruitfulness

Paul continues in Corinthians:

For this reason anyone who speaks in a tongue should pray that he may interpret what he says. For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful. So what shall I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my mind; I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my mind. If you are praising God with your spirit, how can one who finds himself among those who do not understand say “Amen” to your thanksgiving, since he does not know what you are saying? You may be giving thanks well enough, but the other man is not edified.
1 Corinthians 14:13-17

It’s unbelievable to me the number of Christians that read the preceding paragraph and think Paul is patting them on a back for “praying in the spirit” using an unknown tongue! Paul is one again, chastising the baby believers for their immature use of the gift of tongues. These things he declares from those verses:

  1. Tongues are useless without interpretation
  2. The mind is unfruitful with this type of tongues
  3. Those who can’t understand what you are praying or singing about can’t even say “Amen”
  4. Praying must be done with understanding
  5. Singing must be done with understanding
  6. When praying or singing “in the spirit” of bad tongues, the other is not edified

Stop acting like children!

Paul says in verses 18-19 how he speaks in tongues more than anyone, but in church he rather speak words of understanding. Now, can anyone think after carefully reading the preceding verses that Paul speaks unintelligently and without meaning? Which tongues is Paul speaking of? He wouldn’t turn around and speak the same type of tongues he just finished chastisng the baby Christians for doing, would he?

Brothers, stop thinking like children. In regard to evil be infants, but in your thinking be adults. In the Law it is written:
“Through men of strange tongues
and through the lips of foreigners
I will speak to this people,
but even then they will not listen to me,” says the Lord.

Tongues, then, are a sign, not for believers but for unbelievers; prophecy, however, is for believers, not for unbelievers. So if the whole church comes together and everyone speaks in tongues, and some who do not understand or some unbelievers come in, will they not say that you are out of your mind? But if an unbeliever or someone who does not understand comes in while everybody is prophesying, he will be convinced by all that he is a sinner and will be judged by all, and the secrets of his heart will be laid bare. So he will fall down and worship God, exclaiming, “God is really among you!” 1 Corinthians 14:20-25

Paul verbally spanking the babies again when he tells them straight out STOP ACTING LIKE CHILDREN! It’s time for them to grow up and use the gifts that God has given them for the building up of the church, not for self-glorification.

The true purpose of tongues

  1. Tongues are a sign for unbelievers
  2. Prophecy is for believers

Paul clearly defines the purpose of tongues which makes this tongue consistent with the Acts chapter 2 tongues – it was a sign for unbelievers! There are no two or three types of tongues that is acceptable, but only ONE type and that tongue must be an understandable, intelligible, language that is understood by unbelievers.

That’s the message for today’s churches and I truly believe that Paul would go have out of his mind if it were not for Christ if he were here today, because some of the most popular Christian churches are mere babies refusing to grow up. But as MacArthur wrote in his articles, Satan likes to counterfeit anything that God does, and many of these churches may not be true, but satanic disguises.

Is there any evidence of tongues being in existence today? I just refer to the scriptures and I remember in Mark 16 where it speaks of the miraculous spiritual powers given the Christians during this era:

And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well.” Mark 16:17-18

Those signs have pretty much disappeared and I believe that since tongues is lumped in with those, that it too has disappeared. But what about in 1 Corinthians 13 where it says:

Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away. 1 Corinthians 13:8-10

For we know that knowledge and prophecies haven’t failed and the tongues (languages) are still here. The understood languages are here and of course we are all living evidences of such. The evidence of the true gift of tongues I have never seen in person, nor in written form. Anyone have?

So if we are to be about our Father’s business in building up the church, then none of us should be seeking the gift of tongues. If God wants us to, He will impart that gift upon us as HE wills, and not as WE will! Edification of the church and not self is what we should seek!

References:

James M. Frye - Speaking in Tongues
Sharper Iron (blog) – Some Reflections on the Pentecostal/Charismatic Movements, Part 2
Jesus Christology (excellent sources at the end of the post) – Fundamentalists and Charismatics Part 2

© 2008, Carlotta Morrow. All rights reserved.

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42 Comments »

  1. Herman says:

    R.W Reese, I’ll debate you. Let me know

    • Carlotta Morrow
      Twitter: christocentric
      says:

      Herman, no debate needed. My views are expressed here on this blog and if you disagree, I won’t try to convince you otherwise. I’ll agree to disagree.

  2. R.W.Deese says:

    Hello, I would love to have an online written debate concerning the subject matter above. I am a Pentecostal, and believe that some of what was written is definitively not in step with sound hermeneutical and exegetical principles.

    Respectfully

    • Carlotta Morrow
      Twitter: christocentric
      says:

      Feel free to express your views Deese. I’ll engage in conversation with you regarding this topic but if it becomes redundant or argumentative then I’ll kindly decline further dialogue. But you are welcomed on my blog here to disagree so please go ahead!

    • R.W.Deese says:

      Thank you, but no thank you. I am interested in a real debate not a sound bite discussion. I cannot seem to find any anti-Pentecostal who is willing to engage in a meaningful debate on the topic. Oh well! Sooner or later I will find someone who is more serious about the topic.

      Respectfully

  3. Aaron says:

    The only reason we shouldn’t speak in tongues is if God doesn’t give one that gift. God is the giver of gifts, and if He is good, than any gift He imparts on His children is good. It would be a poor choice NOT to exercise the gift of tongues if God has given that gift to a believer.

    Many of your “leaps of logic” in this post are false. I can understand your confusion over the issue, especially in light of some of the abuses “the church” has made with supposed spiritual gifts. I pray your understanding of scripture increases, and that if God ever chooses to impart a spiritual gift to you, that you will be faithful to operate in that gift rather than condemning others for something you do not understand. Would you desire that God not heal, prophesy, etc. through believers in these last days? It’s time for you to look at the fig tree and what God is doing around the world through the Holy Spirit.

  4. john says:

    ask ABBA FATHER for what belongs to you. it is written that all things are yours. praying in the spirit frees you from the bondage of your own intellect. Material man CANNOT understand or perceive spiritual matters. go and get your Fathers Gifts. He freely gives to all who ask for it is HE that LOVES US because HE is LOVE.

  5. Dewey says:

    doesn’t Christ want us to be self-edified in order to be built up enough to edify others?

    Paul noted that he spoke in tongues more than any in the Corinth church.

    I think there is a major difference between self-edifying (which is good) and self-puffing up (which is bad).

    Please pray to the Lord and think about the difference between this…and how the mistake of looking at self-edifying as “puffed up” may have influenced your interpretation of scripture.

    Also, have you ever spoke in tongues? if you have, I am very surprised you have taken this stance. If you haven’t then that very well may be another influence in this interpretation of scripture.

    Lord Bless You and carry on in Him!!! ANd like Paul said in 1 Corinthians 14–forbid not to speak with tongues!!! Especially when God wants to so bless you children!!!

  6. The following video is very helpful in understanding the gifts of tongues, prophecy and knowledge and why they ceased.

    Speaking In Tongues Part A

    God bless,
    Mick

  7. [...] as one that need no interpretation. And yet you wonder why and how these invasions are occurring. "Speaking In Tongues" – Why We Shouldn't! | Christocentric [...]

  8. Carlotta Morrow
    Twitter: christocentric
    says:

    Sunshine, thanks for sharing that from a Messianic Jewish perspective! That was truly deep!

    There are many of us who can see that the tongues in many churches today is NOT the tongues of the bible. I’m glad that you are also one of those who see this!

    Thank you for your insightful comments!

  9. sunshine7 says:

    Oh and by the way, the Hebrew tongue is the tongue of Angels. Hebrew is the Holy tongue. Aramaic is indeed close to Hebrew, a type of variation of it.

  10. sunshine7 says:

    I have to tell you, I am really enjoying this conversation. This subject has been a huge one for the church. Speaking from a Messianic Hebrew perspective, we need to understand the Bible from a Hebraic standpoint. At the time of the “mighty rushing wind” and the event of tongue speaking which took place in the book of Acts, it was during the feast of “Shavuot” or what we call “Pentacost”. The word “Shavuot” simply means “weeks”. Without getting into semantics, the point here is….. It is well understood in Jewish history, that during the giving of the Torah “Law of Moses”, including the 10 commandments, it was the first “Shavuot” or “Pentacost”. At this event, it is said that when God spoke to the Hebrew people, that He spoke to them in each of their native tongues, yet everyone understood in their own language, “at the same time”. Therefore, the event which took place in Acts was a replica of what had already taken place back at the first “Shavuot” or “Pentacost” and was indeed a sign of God’s Spirit being manifested at the latter “Shavuot” or “Pentacost”. This was the purpose for the tongues at that time. You’ll need to do your research on this one, but this is what I have come to learn about it at this point. As for what I think about tongues, I have to agree with the moderator. I think they are not to be used for selfishness, and must be used according to the Bible. Too many have misused them and I’m tired of it. Many African traditions were brought here to this land, many of the episodes we see in churches are related to those traditions. We have got to stop this foolishness and follow the Bible, not according to what pastor so and so says, but according to what God has said. Amen.

  11. Howard says:

    Micah(the same prophet that predicted the excat city Jesus was to be born!)in 7:15 says that ‘according to the time it took you or Israel to leave Egypt’ or 40 years will be the same amount of time God will ‘show Israel miracles or signs.’
    Tongues are called ‘a sign to unbelievers’ in lCo.14 (even though it is mostly done towards and among believers!).Jesus was baptized in AD 30 and Jerusalem as Jesus predicted was destroyed in AD 70. That is 40 years the number of testing or probabtion in the Bible!
    Tongues and the like signs then ‘ceased’ as Paul predicted in Corthinians as they were miracles or signs for that 40 year span of time for the Jews,but they rejected the gospel.
    “Tongues of angels”is an abused statement to.What tongue did Mary hear Gabriel speak to her? What tongue or language did Daniel her Gabriel and the many others who heard angels speak in the NT? ARAMAIC of course!!!That’s the language or tongue they spoke and they understood the angels too.

  12. steward says:

    I have a unique and persuasive view on tongues. i’ll make it as concise as possible.

    The gift of tongues is unlike any other gift in the bible because it’s the only NT gift that isn’t seen in the Old Testament. Since, I’m one of those people that like to use the Old Testament to confirm my doctrine in the New Testament, so i searched for the reasoning behind absence of tongues in the Old Testament.

    It goes back to the tower of babel. Because man could unify with one another so well, they started gaining pride. So, as most of us know, God cursed man’s tongue so that this could not happen again.

    My conclusion is that this is why you don’t see the power of tongue speaking in the old testament. It was under a curse. Prophecy, healing, teaching, were never under a curse, and therefore were widespread throughout the old and new testament.

    This brings us to the new testament. Jesus last prayer in John 17 states this, “that they all may be ONE, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be ONE in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me. . .”

    This poses a slight problem, because God cursed man’s ability to be “One” since the tower of babel. Of course this would have been a permanent problem unless God abolished that curse and replaced it with a new covenant that gave us the spiritual gift of tongues.

    Here’s my point. The gift of tongues is a human language. For those who think that it’s an angelic or Holy Spirit babble, you need to re-read 1 Corinthians 13:1-3 “in perspective”. Don’t just read verse 1, and overlook 2 & 3.

    Let’s answer the obvious questions in verses 2-3. Do you understand “All” mysteries. Does God call us to possess “nothing” to live on? Does he call us to “give” our body to be burned? There is only 1 being who understands all. There is only 1 being who gave up everything. There is only 1 being who had the ability to “give” his own body.

    So, for those of you who think your ability is an angelic/spirit tongue, and not a human language meant to be understood by others, then let’s see how well you practice the rest of 1 Corinthians 13:2-3 along with verse 1.

    You couldn’t unless you realized that verses 1-3 are facetious and rhetorical statements.

    i could really go on here. This is a chapter to write on in and of itself. There is much more to tie together and correlate unity, tongues, and the tower of babel, but without writing a chapter, i won’t go into it.

    Bottom line, the gift of tongues is so the world may know that we are “one”. (Hence, for the unbeliever). It’s not so the world may know we are still under the curse of babel(Gen 11:9) and continue to be under the curse of confusion (1 cor 14:33).

    I do believe people can have the gift of speaking in another language. I have not seen this myself, although i’ve heard of it happening. Unfortunately our faith is so twisted into believing the lie that tongues is an angelic babble and is for self comfort.

  13. takeheed says:

    I personally found the article on the undernoted link helpful when examining the question of ‘tongues’ and I put it forward in that spirit

    http://www.mydoctrine.com/Tongues.HTM

  14. tim smith says:

    Here is how I have settled it according to the word:

    Acts; Speaks in “OTHER” TONGUES..They were known languages that have now been done away with.

    2. Gift of Tongues: It is a Gift meant to be shared with the body of Christ with Interpetation,,without interpetation it is not useful and rebuked.
    This is for today!!

    3.”SPEAK” in Tongues: Now that is what Paul refers to as to be used to edify oneself NOT others!! This is the tongue that many try to use in public and it is not meant for it!!!

    It is a tongue used for pray in a mystery or the tongue of angels..many have this wonderful gift but this gift is confused with the other two and the other two which is “other tongues”(no longer existent) is confused with the Gift” of tongues or to “speak” “in'” tongues.

    It becomes a confusing mess!! However the word is not correctly divided even among the great teachers..

    IN SUMMARY:

    THERE ARE 3 DIFFERENT CATEGORIES OF TONGUES:

    ACTS: IS NO LONGER EXISTENT!!
    THE OTHER TWO TYPES OF TONGUES ARE HERE FOR TODAY!!

    It’s just they are misunderstood, misapplied and begets great confusion and disorder because of it!!

    Paul states he promotes those to pray in tongues but especially to prophecy!! for all will here…however, if it is just a tongue than it is useless to those around you and it would be better to speak 5 words of understanding than a thousand in a unknown tongue!!

    AGain, he is clarifying how these TONGUES(PLURAL) ARE TO BE USED AND THEIR VARYING FUNCTIONS AND USE!!!

    Tim

  15. Carlotta
    Twitter: christocentric
    says:

    Lol! You are too funny!

  16. rw says:

    Hollywood huh? i don’t know where the misconception of we are all skinny, over tanned air heads that spend our days on the beach playing volley ball NAKED!

    when i first game here i had a pair of jellies (plastic shoes) that i loved wearing. i wore them every sunday to church. this one deacons wife ask me what size shoes i wore. she wanted to buy me some shoes. i said oh no i have shoes but i like wearing my jellies.

    i was a health fantaic. i walked into wal mart and asked the meat man if they had ground turkey? and these two women started laughin at me. so they are the reason that i ate the fried chicken, cut my hair off and gained 50 pounds! it’s all their faught.

  17. Carlotta
    Twitter: christocentric
    says:

    i get teased because of my flip flops, my long hair and my accent , but it’s all good!

    Lol! You know rw, after living in California then moving to North Carolina for a few years, when I went off to college I was nicknamed “Hollywood” because of my long hair and western accent. (ditched the long hair for now…) They knew I was from California so the name Hollywood stuck. My daughter going to school in Louisiana gets the same thing!

    Thanks for the suggestion of writing about the “black church traditions.” I just may do that. I wasn’t raised in the church, but became involved with the black church following my separation and eventual divorce from my ex. Although Bayview was one of the strongest black churches scriptural wise, there were a few things about it that made me leave – never wanting to return. It wasn’t the pastor because he was very good, but just the over all black church tradition and I’ll explain that in my upcoming article.

    there are so many wonderful things in the kingdom of God. it’s wonderful to be free. holdiing on to untruths and then being exposed and accepting the truth is like being in a bad relationship, then being free. you always ask yourself ‘what in the world was i thinking’?

    Amen Sister! Just keep on seeking the truth of God’s word in everything!

    You WILL see me in heaven!

    Carlotta

  18. rw says:

    Thanks for the advice.
    wow you have adult kids all over. that’s good. vacation, vacation, vacation.
    i left san diego in 1997. my son lost his dad last year (that was hard, but God is faithful) and i went back and i think i passed through there 4 or 5 times. i used to drive a 18 wheeler. but louisiana is home. i get teased because of my flip flops, my long hair and my accent , but it’s all good!

    i just eat their gumbo, swat at their sqitto’s serve my God , speak in tongues (lol) and be happy!

    no…seriously i love the south. it took me 10 years to discover it’s not cool to refer to the people here as ‘country’ they are ‘southern’ and you better not crack to many jokes pertaining to what they eat, what they wear. don’t mention the word ‘hillbilly’ or make oinking noises like a pig. other than the meaningless traditions. that’s what you should write a article about. the meaningless traditions in the church. everybody dress like a angel. wear white and bring your hundred dollas. 5th sunday is woman’s sunday. every woman wear purple, it stands for royalty, make sure you brush your teeth.

    i was not raised in the church and i’m glad in a way. because i didn’t know the rituals or the meaningless traditions. i onl asked why?

    or write about laying on hands or pushing peoples heads back and breaking necks. or write about uncontrallabl behavoirs that draw attention to people and distract people from God.

    i don’t know i was just throwing things out there.

    i went to a church in monroe la. and their pastor drumgold taught us something. she said here at this church when we praise the lord we praise the lord, when we worship the lord, we worship the lord, but when the word goes fourth i don’t want you to jump out of your seat and run arround the church. i remember bishop jakes during one of his conferences ask the ushers to escort a woman out into foryer. she started this uncontrallable screaming. that many would refer to God dealing with her.

    or write about ‘worship leaders’ who threaten the people . they distract the people from worship by drawing attention to themselves by yelling and making outragious comments. that make some not feel uncommfortable. to the point where they don’t feel comfortable enough to close their eyes.

    you know what God told me carlotta
    never write or present a problem to a person without giving them the solution .

    so for example with the scary worship leaders you could present a article on what ‘anointed ‘ worship leaders do.

    you probaly already knew that though .

    there are so many wonderful things in the kingdom of God. it’s wonderful to be free. holdiing on to untruths and then being exposed and accepting the truth is like being in a bad relationship, then being free. you always ask yourself ‘what in the world was i thinking’?

    nice chat
    better see you in heaven

  19. Carlotta
    Twitter: christocentric
    says:

    Definitely pray for everyone in Louisiana – including my eldest daughter! But she’s in northern Louisiana, and I don’t think she’s in much trouble as the rest of Louisiana. I talked to her a few minutes ago and it was looking stormy, but she hadn’t heard anything of a storm watch.

    I have a son in the Dominican Republic and they’ve already lost 8 people the other day due to that hurricane Gustav. But he’s ok so far and I’ll just keep praying for him too!

    No, I didn’t go to Lincoln. We started off in SouthEast SD but moved to La Mesa/Lemon Grove part of town and my three youngest kids all graduated from Helix High (two older boys lived with their dad in Los Angeles). I was born in San Diego County (Camp Pendleton to be exact) but being in the Military, moved all around. But I have spent the last 20 years here in San Diego.

    You know Lincoln has been rebuilt right? Have a very nice looking state-of-the art school right now. One of my friends is an alumni of Lincoln and went to their opening celebrations. It was very nice!

    Hope you stay dry there as much as you can and I’m praying for Louisiana to be A-OK after this storm is over!

    Well, regarding tongues, we’ll just have to agree to disagree. This is a tough subject and with so many Christians practicing it, I’ll just have to trust Christ to reveal to a brethren that the tongues one is practicing is of God or not.

    And remember, to always test your experiences to God’s word! If your experience contradicts God’s word, then the experience is not of Him.

    Take care now!

  20. rw says:

    yea i hear you. i’m not a bible scholar but i will stick with what works. and what God reveals to me. and what he says i can have. we may not agree on tongues and the purpose of tongues but our common ground i hope is that Jesus died and rose again for us. amen? amen!

    now let me tell you about my 2 nd brother . he’s mentally retarded. and he lives in a mens home. and one of his caretakers was getting out of a van and you know what he told her? You’re pregnant. and she laughed it off. and come down to find out she was pregnant. she discovered it a couple weeks later. praise God! that’s not it though a different attendant he said the same thing to. he said “there’s a baby in there” and sure nuff she was pregnant also. i don’t know if you have ever been around any mentally retarded people but they are very spiritual. and when my mother told me this story I was like praise God. God is working in children as well as mentally retarded people and who ever else will receive Him.

    i know when it comes down to tongues you basically have 2 groups of people. those that believe and those that believe not. then when you break down those that believe you have those that have even more different beliefs based upon their interpation of scripture. and that’s kewl. my only prayer is that when it comes down to tongues, salvation, fruit, prosperity, healing, and anything else that God has to offer his people freely that you I and eveybody else receives them. and not only possess them but uses them the way He says, and that He be glorfied.

    it’s kinda hard to tell a person that has sat on the edge of the bed with a 38 pointing to her head and ready to pull the trigger. who then starts speaking in tongues , in words that she can not understand and the atmosphere totally change to one of humilty and peace that speaking in tongues does’nt work for spirtual warefare. not when she lived to tell the story.

    and that she be me!

    that’s kinda like the people that tell you to call God ‘yahua’ (probaly spelled wrong) and you’ve been using the name ‘Jesus’ and it worked.

    you gonna stick to what works.

    i like talking to you. did you go to lincoln? i went to lincoln dropped out in 1981 and got my GED.

    I am a san diego native. but i currently live in Lousiaiana. pray for the south. we are under hurracaine watch. pray that if the NO (new orleans) has to evacuate, that they are able to do it safetly. and that God give Nagan and the rest wisdom to help the people.

    thanx
    bye

  21. Carlotta
    Twitter: christocentric
    says:

    rw, I don’t doubt for a second that you are a mighty woman of God, but your use of tongues doesn’t fit the description of the purpose that God has intended.

    In all of your experiences with tongues your purposes still appear more for 1) self-edification, and for 2) fighting the enemies (satanic). None of these is for the scripturally stated purposes of tongues being for the unbeliever. Not once does the bible ever describe tongues use for fighting spiritual enemies.

    You say also that this gift is given to anyone who asks, but didn’t the bible specifically say that the gifts are given as God decides and that not all would get the same gift? Not everyone is supposed to be speaking in tongues.

    That presents a problem for any church that teaches tongues for everyone when it’s not, because then they will fall into the trap of thinking of people being less “spiritual” for not having the gift of tongues. Very dangerous!

    I can never support one’s use of “speaking in tongues” if it doesn’t fall in line with God’s purpose as found in His word. It must be for the unbeliever, otherwise, believers are just participating in false worship.

    But I do support the fact that you have a child there who God may use to witness to that family of Muslims. That will be pretty powerful!

  22. rw says:

    no. but i also believe in kingdom living. in other words there are things that we have access to by being a believer. in other words i don’t believe that you have to go to church. But your life sure will be a whole lot better if you did. i don’t believe you have to pay your tithes, but your life will be a whole lot better. i don’t beleive you have to speak in tongues, your life sure will be a whole lot better.

    God deals with me through dreams. he shows me how to fight (spirtually) in dreams. and this dream i had i was going up some steps to help some people. they wanted to have a home bible study but their enemies were trying to stop them. so i was down stairs fighting the enemy. then i would go back up and check on the people. then i would go back down stairs and fight the people (carnal) physically. i wore myself out . then God said ‘speak in your heavenly language’ and i started speaking in tongues
    and when i did te enemies disappeared. i mean they just disappeared. and the amazing thing is how it changed the environment. there was no evidence that they had ever been there. the whole neighborhood looked different. as i looked at the neighbors house next door they had all their ‘stuff’ hanging outside their window. and i’m standing there thinking. ‘we did’nt the enemy try and take their stuff?” no….they came after the people that were trying to serve God.

    so yea, it’s my weapon. one of them. and i believe it is given to anyone that ask and receives. receiving is key. quoting scripture, spitting, slobbing, chanting, crying, is not the key. but receiving.

    i took many trips down to the basement. 3 trips a week for 2 weeks with many different ministers including tonex. and nothing happened. but one day on friday the 13th
    i went down to the basement with a usher. a she began to testify to me about how she was involved in drugs , and gangs, and was a former lisbian and God filled her. and the same God, by the same spirit, could feel me. for free , if i RECIEVE she said open your mouth and receieve. and I fell on the floor speaking while having a outter body experice at the same time. i was agnostic before i got saved and in God’s own specail way he revealed himself to me.

    and everyday Carlotta, he gets sweeter, and sweeter, and sweeter, and sweeter.

    back to my little grandbaby. she has a christian dad (my son) and a muslim mom. (I know it’s kinda weird) and her grandparents are muslim, and the grandmother. she has never had any exposure to christianity. my son is in the military they have been in belgium. and i tell you. she’s a little prophetess. lol

    she says when the monsters come at night and they wanna hurt me, God comforts me and i go to sleep, and i sleep really good. then she says ‘i lost my hanna montanna flash light and i needed it cause inside my closet is very dark, and God told me where my hanna montanna flash light was. i love him so much, he’s in my head, every since i was a little baby’

    and oh boy it is such a joy to talk to her. a little 6 year old whose God is not in the sky only. but inside of her. most adults don’t know that one. lol

    i know it’s the gift of God. and i beleive that God will use her to witness to her family of muslims.

    and by the way she does’nt speak in tongues. YET! lol

  23. Carlotta
    Twitter: christocentric
    says:

    My eldest son who is now 29 became saved at Bayview Baptist when he was 6 years old. Pastor Winters took him into his office without me hovering around and asked him questions to see if he understood what it meant to be saved. He did, and was baptized there. Being a San Diegan I know you’re probably familiar with Bayview which was my home church for about 10 years until I left and went to a non-denominational church where I belong now.

    But that was just to say that I do believe in a child as young as your granddaughter expressing a very real faith in Christ. It’s that child like faith that God even wants us to accept him by! My other children were much older before they became saved, but praise God, all five of them are unashamedly born-again!

    But rw, do you still believe that being filled with the Holy Spirit is evidenced by speaking in tongues?

  24. rw says:

    yea it is. i remeber being in church (i got saved at Tonex’s church then under the pastoral care of his dad) being surrounded by people speaking in tongues. Truth apostalic at that time did not let you walk around without asking “have you been filled with the holy spirit with eveidence of speaking in tongues? ” and if you did’nt you went down to the basement and tarried . I’m glad i did. I have no regrets.

    however during the time i did not have the gift i can remeber this women standing next to me speaking in tongues and i thought perhaps God did’nt love me. or i was’nt really his. so from that experience i don’t do it out loud in church. i can speak without words audiable words coming out. i have also spoke and an interpater interapated the tongues.

    i used to meet people who had awesome fruit yet never spoke. I beleive speaking is like anything else you receive from God. Faith. but the people i met were focused more on am i supposed to ? Am I not? Like having a orgasm some things you just gotta let flow without trying to figure it out. you just accept it.

    Carlotta I was not raised in the church. and i’m glad because it seems like the people that are confused, or teahing false doctrines are some of the ones that were born and raised in the church and have strayed.

    i have a grandaughter who is 6 years old who loves talking about Jesus. when i attempt to tell my mom about how she just loves God. my mom does’nt wanna hear it. she does’nt think she’s sincere. but the bottom line is when my mother was a child her parents forced her to go to church, forced her to talk about God etc.

    so sometimes based on our past exps. we hear what we wanna, believe what we wanna, and teach what we believe to others.

    thats why again i say I thank God for my own little bible and I thank God for the truth.

    I remeber Pastor anthony williams Sr. teaching us to learn the Word, memorize as much of it as you can, get an understaning and don’t let nobody come through and teach you something that does’nt line up with the Word.

    you know it seems like the first year of salvation was when that foundation of truth was laid down and i’ve been holding on to it (and speaking in tongues) every since.

  25. Carlotta
    Twitter: christocentric
    says:

    Amen rw! I agree about our responsibility to God as His children, His chosen children! And pimping the gift of God? That’s what a lot of folks do with their godly gifts, forgetting about their true calling in spreading the gospel with a lifestyle that matches the preaching.

    Okay for being a tongue speaking woman. I just pray that your tongue speaking is along the guidelines that Paul laid out in 1 Corinthians 14.

  26. rw says:

    oh by the way I am a tongue speaking woman. It’s one of the many weapons that God has equipped me with.

  27. rw says:

    I dont either (believe that you have to speak in tongues to sing in the choir) but his late father did. He was a firm believer in living the life or sitting down. there are many jobs that you can do for God by picking up the trash in the parking lot, painting the church, working in a soup kitchen,singing last songs to the dieing.

    You know who was notorious for living her life ‘freely’?
    Britney spears. Britney did what ever she felt . she felt no responablity to the young girls that looked up to her. NONe, ZIP. and look where he freedom got her.

    we as Children of the most high God have a responsabilty. Many are called but few are chosen. You see what happens when we don’t wait. or people send us? or we send ourselves, or when you use God’s name for selfish gain, or we are repobates, or we stop reading the Word, or we attempt to pimp the gift of God?

    I’m not saying that Tonex is doing any of the abouve. but i will say this Get ready, get ready as Jake used to say. you better hold on to what you know. make sure you are rooted and grounded cause all the abouve is here. Right now! and their coming in whose name? Jesus’s name.

  28. Carlotta
    Twitter: christocentric
    says:

    I still liked what you wrote to Tonex even though I don’t agree about the “speaking in tongues” as a prerequisite for singing in the choir. :)

  29. rw says:

    you know what? i am so glad that i’m planted in the truth.
    read your bible
    read your bible
    read your bible

    get a hunger and thirst for the truth
    like never ever before
    especially, if you are reading these blogs

    don’t let nobody
    i do mean nobody
    talk you out of using your heavenly language
    i don’t care what their interpation of scripture is
    seek God for the truth

    do not be like the elite that fall away

    i better see you in heaven

    • Samuel Toomer says:

      Amen!! Agreed!! Deception wouldn’t be deception if you knew you were being decieved!!!! Praying in the Holy Ghost is where your power lies!!!! The evil one, which sinneth from the beginning can defeat you all day long, knowing you dont have that weapon/tool. Glory be to God forevermore!!!!

  30. Carlotta
    Twitter: christocentric
    says:

    Becky, praying in an unknown tongue is the “selfish” tongue I was speaking of. If one prays in a tongue that he doesn’t understand, what good is it for? If it’s just to get a “feeling” that one is spiritual then that is self-centered and not about edifying the body of Christ.

    This is not talking about being able to express to God what we’re going through or what we’re feeling through praying where we can’t even form words. That type of praying the Holy Spirit translates and makes known to God. Paul describes that here in Romans:

    “In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groans that words cannot express.” Romans 8:26

    So remember, the true gift of tongues is for a sign for unbelievers. This was the intent of Acts 2, and also repeated in 1 Corinthians 14:22. If it is to be a sign for unbelievers, then believers have no business using the gift of tongues for self-edification!

    Jude is consistent to the teachings about prayer. It is not urging anyone to pray in an unknown tongue, but pray in the Holy Spirit — with understanding!

    • Samuel Toomer says:

      I’m very saddened by what I’ve read today. If you can rightly divide the word of truth, you can also wrongly divide it as well. On the day of Pentacost everyone was filled with the evidence of speaking in tongues. You will always be a powerless, decieved christian thinking that you don’t have to pray in tongues to release most Holy Faith. I think it’s an ignorant statement to say, “every believer will not have the gift of tongues,” this is true however, it’s different from one speaking in tongues to refuel their spirit. satan would love for you & others to never speak in tongues as a believer, because he’ll be able to thwart many of your prayers with hindering spirits. Praying in the Holy Ghost is a vital tool for a christian to utilize while on the earth. I’m going to continue praying in the Holy Ghost & continue to live a powerful, spiritual life. How can the spiritual gifts go into operation with the vessel not being filled with the power of the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues??! Make sure your heart is not evil with unbelief. The Bible says to covet earnestly the gifts of the spirit.

      • Carlotta Morrow
        Twitter: christocentric
        says:

        Samuel, if you are saying it’s ignorant to believe that not everyone will possess the gift of speaking in tongues, then you are calling the Word of God ignorant. It says clearly in 1 Corinthians 12:4-11 that gifts are given accordingly to different individuals…and even says of tongues in verse 10: “…to another different kinds of tongues, …” For you to say all are to speak in tongues is in direct contradiction to scripture. Why do you think Paul even had to write his letter in 1 Corinthians 14? He wrote to the immature Corinthian Christians and those like them who were misusing the gifts of the spirit. Pretty much like many Christians such as yourself are doing today. Turning a blind eye to the word of God and puffed up in spiritual pride to believe that everyone has to speak in tongues … and even for the wrong reason. To release the most high? Where in the scriptures does it say to speak in tongues to release the Most High? The day of Pentecost served a specific purpose and everyone who spoke in tongues was speaking a language that others could understand. Nothing like the babbling that goes on today.

        My challenge to you is to read carefully Paul’s admonishments in 1 Cor 14 and the purposes of the gifts in chapter 12. Self edification is why many are speaking in tongues today, and that is something that Paul speaks against. The gifts are to build the body of believers – and not of ones self! (1 Corinthians 14:13-17).

  31. Becky says:

    so if tongues or praying in the spirit is “selfish” why did Jude tell us to build up our most holy faith praying in the spirit?

  32. Carlotta
    Twitter: christocentric
    says:

    Thanks for the comments Mark!

    I did this post because a couple of my own children were getting hung up on this tongues crap. I had to break out notes I had written on this several years ago, and was so glad that one of my favorite pastors had linkable articles on it to back me up! (John MacArthur)

    Hopefully, my children (and any of God’s children) can see that they’re just using tongues to puff themselves up spiritually — making a lot of noise without saying nothing!

    I’m going to go back and read your article in its entirety. I confess, I soon as I saw that pic of Bentley, I turned from it quickly! I can’t even stand the sight of that guy! But I know your article was solid without even looking at it. The title said it all “Resisting the Enemy, no Rebuking Required!”

  33. Mark says:

    WOW! Slam dunk sister. I just recently did a related post on healing and rebuking – Resisting the Enemy – rebuking not required.

    This survey you did on tongues is a keeper. Thanks for your hard work. It is indeed amazing how folks use scripture towards a self- edification, the very first sign it is not of God.

    Blessings!

  34. Carlotta
    Twitter: christocentric
    says:

    Tim, I wrote this post because of beliefs similar to yours about tongues. The church is in a constant state of confusion whenever it’s taught that there’s three different types of tongues. Tongues as shared in my post, was a known language and Paul never encourages us to speak in an unknown tongue for self-edification.

    Speaking in tongues is being selfishly used by the church today. Many want the “feel” and “look” of being spiritual Christians when it isn’t the sign of being spirit-filled at all. I’ve had many well meaning fellow Christians insist that I speak in tongues or otherwise they felt I was missing out on something. But that’s never the case and it’s a sign of a baby Christian who seek tongues that’s spoken today. That’s the reason Paul wrote 1 Corinthians 14 – to chastise the church for its misuse of tongues!

  35. Carlotta
    Twitter: christocentric
    says:

    Takeheed, that was an excellent page you shared on tongues. I’ll add it to my list of resources along with John MacArthur’s links.

    Thanks for sharing!

  36. Carlotta
    Twitter: christocentric
    says:

    Well said Steward! If folks could really study what the bible says about tongues two points stand out that you also mentioned: 1) Tongues is a known language and 2) It was for the unbelievers. What goes on today is childish as Paul had written and in some cases even demonic!

    This does truly happen in some places although I haven’t truly witnessed it myself. That’s why we are never to forbid the TRUE language of speaking in an unknown tongue because we really never know when God may call upon a believer to do so.

    Enjoyed your comment!

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