December 23, 2006

Responses to Cobb's Blog

by Carlotta Morrow — Categories: Kwanzaa — Tags: , 5 Comments

I’ve always wanted to get a true understanding of those Christians whom after finding the truth about Kwanzaa, still insist upon supporting it. I’ve been participating in a debate with Cobb, who considers himself a conservative Christian. As I’m learning more about him, something he reveals to me helps me to understand even further the thought process of those who profess to know Christ, but would support the worship of man in this celebration called Kwanzaa.

In a closing statement he had made to me, Cobb said the following:

“I am thankful to live among people who recognize that there are multiple valid interpretations of holy works and that throughout history there have been many paths to the truth.”

As a Christian who believes in the inspired word of God called the Bible, I see immediately a major contradiction. He’s a Christian who believes in multiple interpretations of holy works and many paths to the truth. As a bible believing Christian, there is only one true word of God and only one path to God: through Jesus Christ, the Lord and Savior of mankind. If I’ve misunderstood Cobb, I’ll welcome him here in “my house” to correct me.

Cobb goes on to say:

“It is an acknowledgment that human beings speak different languages and come to universal truths in different ways. More directly, we are fortunate that African Americans, at a crucial point in history decided to move beyond the same pulpits and the same messages, to confront restrictions on their liberties and minds from a new perspective. The best of that perspective embodied in works of the Black Consciousness, Black Nationalist, and Black Arts Movements, is still alive, and some part of that is carried forward in the spirit of Kwanzaa.”

Those who love Kwanzaa, love the “black consciousness.” Honestly, I’m still not sure what that’s supposed to mean. But it appears that those who subscribe to this black consciousness, want ALL blacks to possess the same type of consciousness. I figure that I’m black and have a conscious, that’s as far as my black consciousness goes. What shapes my mind is my own life experiences as dictated to me through the word of God. Perhaps I can hear from people as they explain what “black consciousness” means to them. My world isn’t shape by the color of my skin. I do experience things because of my color at times, but my life’s consciousness doesn’t dwell on color. Maybe that’s why I don’t fit this black consciousness thing.

When one falls in love with God and his Word, you want to guard the sacredness of anything about Him with your life. The way to better living (an abundant life) is through God’s word and anything else that attempts to imitate it we must expose. Thus my writings regarding Kwanzaa.

Though claiming to be a non-religious celebration, it imitates several religions. It has lighting of candles such as you see in the Jewish holiday Hanukkah, it has pouring of water and libations as in ancient African religions that practice ancestor worship, it has gift giving as in Christmas, the holiday is even spread through many days as the Jewish spread the days over in Hanukkah. And most strikingly, it is celebrated near the Jewish and Christian’s seasonal holidays of Hanukkah and Christmas.

My world is Christ-centered, thus the name of my website Christocentric as opposed to afrocentric. Instead of my world being ruled by the color of my skin, it is ruled by the things of God as it relates to Christ.

More musings later.

© 2006, Carlotta Morrow. All rights reserved.

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5 Comments »

  1. Anonymous says:

    Hi Carlotta, it’s Kaya Maga.

    Before I get to your last question I’d like to finish the response that I left incomplete concerning Christmas. You said:

    “But unfortunately, you probably get your information about Christmas from the same place you get info about Christianity and the bible.”

    I get my information from a number of sources, but what difference does it make where I get my info as long as it’s true and accurate? You haven’t been able to point out any inaccuracies in any of the facts that I have given concerning Christianity, the bible or Christmas. The only thing you can do is try to dismiss it as “anti-Christian”. I guess historical facts are anti-Christian then, and surely there’s a reason for that.
    Then you proceed to give me an excerpt on the origins of Christmas written by Christian clergymen. I’m sure that wasn’t biased at all. Next you said:

    “Christmas IS a separate celebration where Christ is worshipped. There is no idol worshipping of trees, ornaments and etc. Only the Son is worshipped. The scriptures you quoted would pertain to Christians if indeed the objects were worshipped as Jesus is worshipped but that is not the case at all.”

    It’s more than obvious that you are in denial here and willing to use any excuse to try and justify this pagan laced celebration. I never said any of these objects were worshipped. The simple fact that pagan symbols are used at all (trees, wreaths, missle toes, graven images) in the celebration of Jesus’ birthday provides overwhelming evidence that Christmas was intended to mix Christianity and paganism…along with the fact that it’s celebrated on Dec. 25, the birthday of the pagan god ‘mythra’. It cracks me up when I go to these “Christian” churches and see Christmas trees and especially nativity scenes and statues of Jesus and Mary, which is in complete rebellion to the God’s commandment:

    “Thou shalt not make (not worship) unto thee, ANY graven image or ANY likeness of ANYTHING that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.”

    Guess yall must have forgot that one, huh?

    BTW – I would appreciate if you could also post this in the ‘Is Christmas Pagan?’ thread as well. Peace.

  2. Carlotta Morrow says:

    You’re right Cobb. I don’t get what you’re talking about at all. But fortunately others do get what I’m talking about and my research and information has proved useful to them.

    We’ll just a agree to disagree at this point. Take care!

  3. Cobb says:

    If no appeal to human authority works with you, as you have indicated, then all of your indictments of Karenga are meaningless.

    Kwanzaa is not worship. I don’t think you get this.

  4. Carlotta Morrow says:

    Cobb, thank you for coming to my forum to continue our discussion. There were a few things I did seek clarity on, and you are providing those well. I’ll start with some things that you shared and my responses to them.

    You said:

    “Multiple valid interpretations, can be exemplified as Catholic, Episcopalian, Methodist, Baptist, Presbyterian. There are different kinds of Christians. Heard of them?”

    I’m sorry, but I come from the belief that although there are different denominations, interpretations are still similar when it comes to the topics of salvation, heaven and hell, the deity of Jesus Christ, and the Trinity for example. I used to be Baptist, but major Christian doctrines are no different than the doctrines of the non-denomination church that I’m currently a member of right now. True, there are different interpretations in some denominations, but it is considered error (heresy) when anyone strays from what is taught as “truth.”

    “You seem unable to appreciate that your interpretation of the evil of Kwanzaa is just A Christian interpretation, not THE Christian interpretation. When I said you were on an evangelical mission from your bishop, I was giving you the benefit of the doubt that you might represent something agreed upon by that level of theological thought. But when I look at your anti-Kwanzaa website, most of your citations come from people who are not ordained of God. They don’t seem to belong to any recognizable denomination whatsoever.”

    Okay Cobb. I really see how you are viewing this whole thing of understanding Christian beliefs. You must be under some teaching that one’s belief is not valid unless someone ordained is behind it all. The beauty of the bible is that ordinary people are urged to study the scriptures for themselves and NOT TRUST what someone tells them just because of their “church standing or ordination.” Have you ever read about the Berean Christians? Look what the Apostle Paul says about them:”Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.” Acts 17:11
    God encourages us to read the scriptures for ourselves, thus using our own minds led by God’s Holy Spirit to illuminate His truth to us. My interpretation of the evil of Kwanzaa is what God has given me, not through anyone ordained. And no, my understanding is not God-breathed or God inspired like the biblical prophets or disciples. This is just my level of understanding as an ordinary everyday person with room for error. That’s why I’ve opened up discussions because if anyone finds errors in anything that I say, with evidence, then I’m open for change. But to ignore anything I have to say because I’m not “ordained” is just plain foolish and “uppity.”

    “So I think you do yourself a disservice and undermine your cause by quoting people who are just layfolks with a Bible as examples of something that might be misinterpreted as Christian doctrine. I mean Ann Coulter? Really. You ought to be ashamed.”

    I don’t quote Ann Coulter to support any of my writings. She’s on my “Links” page and I just provide a link to her article. She is not on the main part of my website that I use to show the errors of Kwanzaa.

    “Get a real Christian bishop from a real Christian denomination.”

    Once again, you show how you are hung up on church positions and names. Not a necessity when writing Christian related topics.

    “The thought process of those who profess to know Christ from my faith is encapsulated in the Book of Common Prayer.”

    I don’t care to know the thought processes of those of your faith. I want to know YOUR thought process. Who is the author of your website, you or those in the Book of Common Prayer?

    “What goes on in your church, whatever that is, may be written in a book, or it may be written only in your heart. But I’m not going to take what’s written in your heart as Church doctrine. Therefore even in the most generous respectful was as a Christian I don’t understand how you can be representing anything other than yourself – but that may just be something of the level of Protestantism you’re at. It all seems very vague to me.”

    Of course I’m only representing myself. Again, the time of prophetic writing is over. The Bible is complete. What I write about is strictly from me. So does that mean to tell me you don’t listen to any Christian conversations unless it is Church Doctrine? That is vague to me.

    “As for Black Consciousness and the Black Nationalist and Black Arts Movement, they too were carried out with some discipline. You can’t really use the term ‘black’ authoritatively just as you can’t use the term ‘Christian’ authoritatively on a whim.”

    I am Christian and I am Black. I don’t need authority to speak on my experiences as such. Who are you to say that I can’t? By what “authority” do you believe you speak as?

    “There is documentation and discipline required. It isn’t about what ‘black consciousness means to you’ just as it’s not about what ‘Christ means to you’, it’s about the true meanings and the true context and how those meanings arose and how they are maintained. You can get any fool off the street to say what the life of Jesus means to them, that doesn’t make them a bishop. And you can get any fool to say what black consciousness means to them, that doesn’t qualify them as an expert.”

    Cobb, your writings just show me that somehow someway you believe you are above the average person and it’s just really beneath you to even hold the discussions that we hold. Thank you for showing me your true colors here, because now I understand that our talks will get no where. If I was Bishop Carlotta then perhaps so, but because I’m everyday studious, researcher, conservative, Christian American, than I can not get anywhere with you.

    Thanks for sharing!

    cm

  5. Cobb says:

    Multiple valid interpretations, can be exemplified as Catholic, Episcopalian, Methodist, Baptist, Presbyterian. There are different kinds of Christians. Heard of them?

    You seem unable to appreciate that your interpretation of the evil of Kwanzaa is just A Christian interpretation, not THE Christian interpretation. When I said you were on an evangelical mission from your bishop, I was giving you the benefit of the doubt that you might represent something agreed upon by that level of theological thought. But when I look at your anti-Kwanzaa website, most of your citations come from people who are not ordained of God. They don’t seem to belong to any recognizable denomination whatsoever.

    So I think you do yourself a disservice and undermine your cause by quoting people who are just layfolks with a Bible as examples of something that might be misinterpreted as Christian doctrine. I mean Ann Coulter? Really. You ought to be ashamed. Get a real Christian bishop from a real Christian denomination.

    The thought process of those who profess to know Christ from my faith is encapsulated in the Book of Common Prayer. It is Church doctrine, and our rites and Sacraments are clear in the Episcopal and Catholic Churches. You’ve seen the Nicene Creed as I put it in my blog – that is my profession of faith. What goes on in your church, whatever that is, may be written in a book, or it may be written only in your heart. But I’m not going to take what’s written in your heart as Church doctrine. Therefore even in the most generous respectful was as a Christian I don’t understand how you can be representing anything other than yourself – but that may just be something of the level of Protestantism you’re at. It all seems very vague to me.

    As for Black Consciousness and the Black Nationalist and Black Arts Movement, they too were carried out with some discipline. You can’t really use the term ‘black’ authoritatively just as you can’t use the term ‘Christian’ authoritatively on a whim. There is documentation and discipline required. It isn’t about what ‘black consciousness means to you’ just as it’s not about what ‘Christ means to you’, it’s about the true meanings and the true context and how those meanings arose and how they are maintained. You can get any fool off the street to say what the life of Jesus means to them, that doesn’t make them a bishop. And you can get any fool to say what black consciousness means to them, that doesn’t qualify them as an expert.

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