October 13, 2008

same sex marriage

The Negative Effects of Same-sex Marriages (Updated 7/9/2013)

This post was written originally in October 2008 as a response to the initial Prop 8 balloting and every year is still the most visited site on my blog. The interest in same-sex marriage exists because of the ongoing debate on whether to legalize it or not.  With both Prop 8 and DOMA now defeated, the tide is turning and growing for the support of gay marriage and homosexuality in general. As for me and my blog, nothing is changing as I will always stand for the truth of God’s word which declares homosexuality as sin but saddened as this country just appears to have more in common with Sodom and Gomorrah than not.

The articles below are loaded with arguments and statistical data that support marriage between a man and a woman and expose the negatives of homosexuality. Also listed below are articles that write about the spiritual, socio-political, and medical consequences of homosexual sex, a topic that political correctness has managed to keep hidden from the airwaves and most media.

As the debate continues and more and more people become convinced that to “love” all people means to accept the aberrant behavior of the homosexual, the need for beneficial information abounds. Real facts regarding the negative effects of same-sex unions and how it affects not only individuals, but communities and even entire cultures becomes sought after, resulting in blogs such as this one whose most popular articles are the result of searches for “negative effects of homosexuality.” This blog post will continue to be updated with new and relevant news.

Read, contemplate, meditate and freely share your thoughts!

Updated 7/9/2013

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Statistical data and research

What happens to marriage and families when the law recognises Same-Sex Marriage”? (pdf) Compelling statistics from European countries where same-sex marriage is legalized. Give specific examples on the negative effects of same-sex marriage. From the Society for the Protection of Unborn Children: https://www.spuc.org.uk/news/releases/2013/march02

Yes, Marriage Will Change – and Here’s Howby Mark Regnerus is an associate professor of sociology at the University of Texas at Austin.

Same-Sex Marriage: Not in the Best Interest of Childrenby Trayce Hansen, Ph.D who is a licensed psychologist with a clinical and forensic practice. Originally published 2009. (The forward of this article by Dr. Hansen explains that gay activists were successful in getting articles such as hers expunged from the CAMFT (The California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists) journal after a special publication was published that had both opinions – for and against same-sex marriage. Read the forward for detailed info regarding an example of further loss of freedom of speech by those who oppose homosexuality.)

Love Isn’t Enough: 5 Reasons Why Same-Sex Marriage Harms Childrenby Trayce Hansen, Ph.D who is a licensed psychologist with a clinical and forensic practice. Originally published 2009.

Why Marriage Matters by Brad Wilcox (& colleagues) - 30 conclusions from the Social Sciences in why cohabitation instead of divorce is the worse threat to families today. The greatest benefit of children social scientists have gathered have been in households with a married mother and father.

The Top Ten Harms of Same-Sex “Marriage” (pdf)Family Research Council

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Christian Persecution and Same-Sex Marriage

Retired Los Angeles Deputy turned evangelist arrested in London for preaching against homosexuality – a sign of things to come in America?

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Court Decisions and Christian Responses to Same-sex marriages in general

Supreme Court Dismisses Prop. 8 Appeal; Gay Marriage Moves Forward in California

Supreme Court Strikes Down Key Provision in Defense of Marriage Act

Prop 8, DOMA, and the Christian Responseby Ed Stetzer

What Is the Gospel Response to the Prop. 8 Decision?Christianity Today, with responses from Christians from a variety of backgrounds.

How can gay marriage hurt anyone?by Matt Slick, Christian Apologist

How Christians Have Partnered With Gays to Attack Marriage - by Ronald J. Sider who is the president of Evangelicals for Social Action and professor of theology, holistic ministry and public policy at Palmer Seminary of Eastern University in Wynnewood, Pa.

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Videos

Jennifer Roback Morse, Ph.D. is the founder and President of the Ruth Institute
Explains the two competing views of marriage – one traditional/natural and the other recreational/consumer-based

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Renowned Neurosurgeon Dr. Ben Carson on Same-Sex Marriage

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Updated 1/21/2013 – see post on this site: Obama on Gay marriage in Inaugural Speech: the sad state of Christianity in America. President Obama has thrown his support to gay marriage – after swearing on three different bibles. Article meant more for Christians than non-Christians but an important read for anyone interested. Confirms what has been written below that soon gay relationships will be seen as “normal.” The more normalized homosexuality becomes, the more demonized bible believing Christians become.
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Updated 7-1-2012

SAVECALIFORNIA.COM NEWS RELEASE

June 21, 2012 — For Immediate Release

The Harmful Agenda Behind ‘LGBT Pride’ Parades
Perverse parades advocate intolerant laws punishing people who disagree

Sacramento, California — The homosexual-bisexual-transsexual parades occurring in cities in California and around the nation are harmful to both children and adults, says a veteran children and families organization.

“‘LGBT Pride’ means roping children into unhealthy and unnatural homosexual-bisexual-transsexual lifestyles, and eliminating the God-given, constitutional rights of everyone who disagrees,” said Randy Thomasson, president of SaveCalifornia.com, which promotes moral virtues for the common good. “You can’t support so-called ‘gay rights’ and at the same time support free speech, religious freedom, or freedom of association, because these concocted ‘gay rights’ are trampling people’s true constitutional rights.”

In California, the “lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender” agenda is firmly entrenched in state statutes and court rulings. As a result, so-called “LGBT rights” trump other people’s constitutional rights:

1. GONE — Religious freedom, conscience rights: Under threat of a $150,000 penalty, business owners and property owners cannot decline to hire or rent to homosexuals, bisexuals, or transsexuals despite an owner’s religious or moral conscience: Homosexuality and bisexuality — AB 1001 and AB 1670 (1999); cross-dressing and “sex changes” — AB 196 (2003), AB 887 (2011)

2. GONE — Parents’ rights: A raft of “LGBT” laws in K-12 government schools has largely eliminated the requirement of parental permission for teaching children these sexual subjects. See the several “LGBT” laws that override parental consent

3. GONE — Physicians’ rights: You can’t be a doctor in California and for religious/moral reasons, refuse artificial insemination to a lesbian: “Doctors’ faith must yield to gays’ rights, court says”

4. GONE — Right of association: Owners of businesses and clubs are prohibited from exercising their First Amendment right of association regarding homosexuality, bisexuality, and transsexuality: AB 2900 (2004), AB 1400 (2005), Bernardo Heights Country Club (2005)

Freedom of religion and freedom of assembly (association) are enshrined in the United States Constitution and the California Constitution. The fundamental right of parents to direct the education and upbringing of their children has been repeatedly affirmed by the United States Supreme Court. Yet “LGBT” statutory laws in California have been allowed to trump constitutional freedom of religion and freedom of association, as well as infringe upon fundamental parental rights. In contrast, homosexual-bisexual-transsexual “rights” are in neither the state constitution nor federal constitution. In addition, these sexual behaviors do not qualify for “civil rights” status, which is categorically limited to characteristics that are immutable — not changeable, as homosexuality, bisexuality, and transsexuality have demonstrated themselves to be.

“In California, religious rights, moral rights, parental rights, business owner rights, property owner rights, physicians’ rights, and the right of association are being trampled by the intolerant ‘LGBT’ agenda,” Thomasson said. “And despite their lust for dominion and their incessant attacks on other persons’ constitutional rights, the homosexual-bisexual-transsexual activists deceive themselves and others by claiming to be ‘victims’ of peaceful people who have a conscience on these sexual behaviors. But who’s trampling whom? American rights or so-called ‘gay rights’ — you can’t have both, because the latter eliminates the former.”

— end —

SaveCalifornia.com is a leading West Coast nonprofit, nonpartisan organization standing strong for moral virtues for the common good. We represent children and families in the areas of marriage and family, parental rights, the sanctity of human life, religious freedom, financial freedom, and back-to-basics education.

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(Original posting of 2008)
From the Rock Church Fine Line Rally held October 1, 2008. Pastor Miles and panelist Sean McDowell answer the question posed: “Same Sex Marriage Doesn’t Affect Me. Why should I be against it?

In this discussion, Sean McDowell uses the phrase “social re-engineering of marriage” as my new favorite phrase which means redefining marriage. Social scientists who’ve studied marriage have written articles regarding the harmful effects of changing marriage to accommodate marriages such as same-sex marriages. After reading several articles which I will list at the end of this post, there are many similar conclusions. These are as follows:

  1. Will impact education - We have already seen with the David Parker case in Massachusetts how with same-sex marriage being made legal there resulted in the teaching of same-sex marriages as okay to children WITHOUT even the consent of parents. Since it is mainstream and legal, and since marriages are taught to grade-school children, then same-sex marriage is automatically included without any special need to notify parents.

    Update (10/21/08): video of Robb and Robin Wirthlin’s Story about the book titled “King and King” brought home by their second grader on marriage between two men. It wasn’t part of their curriculum, but had to be taught without any notice to parents. It’s not a part of sex education so no opt out was needed. This is said to be a lie of many Prop 8 Opponents, but it is quite the truth.

  2. Marriage identity words changed – Words such as bride and groom, and husband and wife are now altered to accommodate the same-sex marriages. In California, the marriage licenses were changed from bride and groom to ‘party A’ and ‘party B’ but this was recently changed to add ‘bride and groom’ as an option. Other words replacing husband and wife are ‘partner and spouse.’
  3. Children will be harmed – According to social scientists, “research indicates that children thrive best when raised by both biological married parents, as long as the marriage is not high-conflict.” (Child Trends Research Briefs and Mapping America). So not just any kind of marriage, but a HEALTHY marriage.
  4. Gay marriage is harmful to society – marriage and families are the foundation for a healthier society. Our society is already experiencing the effects of unhealthy heterosexual marriages and breakups. Introducing gay marriages just adds to the instability that already exists in marriages.
  5. Tramples on religious freedom – see my post for more info: Gay Unions don’t affect religious freedom? Think again!

Below features an article found on Christianity Today dated 2/1/2004. After the article is a list of other websites and articles on the same topic.

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Institutionalizing homosexual marriage would be bad for marriage, bad for children, and bad for society.

Now that the Massachusetts Supreme Court has ruled that marriage be open to gays and lesbians, it is time to consider the question that pops up more than mushrooms after a spring rain. How would the legalization of gay marriage harm current and future heterosexual marriages?

The answer at first glance is that it wouldn’t, at least not in individual cases in the short run. But what about the longer run for everyone?

It is a superficial kind of individualism that does not recognize the power of emerging social trends that often start with only a few individuals bucking conventional patterns of behavior. Negative social trends start with only a few aberrations. Gradually, however, social sanctions weaken and individual aberrations became a torrent.

Think back to the 1960s, when illegitimacy and cohabitation were relatively rare. At that time many asked how one young woman having a baby out of wedlock or living with an unmarried man could hurt their neighbors. Now we know the negative social effects these two living arrangements have spawned: lower marriage rates, more instability in the marriages that are enacted, more fatherless children, increased rates of domestic violence and poverty, and a vast expansion of welfare state expenses.

But even so, why would a new social trend of gays marrying have negative effects? We believe there are compelling reasons why the institutionalization of gay marriage would be 1) bad for marriage, 2) bad for children, and 3) bad for society.

1. The first casualty of the acceptance of gay marriage would be the very definition of marriage itself. For thousands of years and in every Western society marriage has meant the life-long union of a man and a woman. Such a statement about marriage is what philosophers call an analytic proposition. The concept of marriage necessarily includes the idea of a man and woman committing themselves to each other. Any other arrangement contradicts the basic definition. Advocates of gay marriage recognize this contradiction by proposing “gay unions” instead, but this distinction is, we believe, a strategic one. The ultimate goal for them is the societal acceptance of gay marriage.

Scrambling the definition of marriage will be a shock to our fundamental understanding of human social relations and institutions. One effect will be that sexual fidelity will be detached from the commitment of marriage. The advocates of gay marriage themselves admit as much. “Among gay male relationships, the openness of the contract makes it more likely to survive than many heterosexual bonds,” Andrew Sullivan, the most eloquent proponent of gay marriage, wrote in his 1996 book, Virtually Normal. “There is more likely to be a greater understanding of the need for extramarital outlets between two men than between a man and a woman. … Something of the gay relationship’s necessary honesty, its flexibility, and its equality could undoubtedly help strengthen and inform many heterosexual bonds.”

The former moderator of the Metropolitan Community Church, a largely homosexual denomination, made the same point. “Monogamy is not a word the gay community uses,” Troy Perry told The Dallas Morning News. “We talk about fidelity. That means you live in a loving, caring, honest relationship with your partner. Because we can’t marry, we have people with widely varying opinions as to what that means. Some would say that committed couples could have multiple sexual partners as long as there’s no deception.”

A recent study from the Netherlands, where gay marriage is legal, suggests that the moderator is correct. Researchers found that even among stable homosexual partnerships, men have an average of eight partners per year outside their “monogamous” relationship.

In short, gay marriage will change marriage more than it will change gays.

Further, if we scramble our definition of marriage, it will soon embrace relationships that will involve more than two persons. Prominent advocates hope to use gay marriage as a wedge to abolish governmental support for traditional marriage altogether. Law Professor Martha Ertman of the University of Utah, for example, wants to render the distinction between traditional marriage and “polyamory” (group marriage) “morally neutral.” She argues that greater openness to gay partnerships will help us establish this moral neutrality (Her main article on this topic, in the Winter 2001 Harvard Civil Rights and Civil Liberties Law Review, is not available online, but she made a similar case in the Spring/Summer 2001 Duke Journal Of Gender Law & Policy). University of Michigan law professor David Chambers wrote in a widely cited 1996 Michigan Law Review piece that he expects gay marriage will lead government to be “more receptive to [marital] units of three or more” (1996 Michigan Law Review).

2. Gay marriage would be bad for children. According to an article in Child Trends, “Research clearly demonstrates that family structure matters for children, and the family structure that helps the most is a family headed by two biological parents in a low-conflict marriage.” While gay marriage would encourage adoption of children by homosexual couples, which may be preferable to foster care, some lesbian couples want to have children through anonymous sperm donations, which means some children will be created purposely without knowledge of one of their biological parents. Research has also shown that children raised by homosexuals were more dissatisfied with their own gender, suffer a greater rate of molestation within the family, and have homosexual experiences more often.

Gay marriage will also encourage teens who are unsure of their sexuality to embrace a lifestyle that suffers high rates of suicide, depression, HIV, drug abuse, STDs, and other pathogens. This is particularly alarming because, according to a 1991 scientific survey among 12-year-old boys, more than 25 percent feel uncertain about their sexual orientations. We have already seen that lesbianism is “chic” in certain elite social sectors.

Finally, acceptance of gay marriage will strengthen the notion that marriage is primarily about adult yearnings for intimacy and is not essentially connected to raising children. Children will be hurt by those who will too easily bail out of a marriage because it is not “fulfilling” to them.

3. Gay marriage would be bad for society. The effects we have described above will have strong repercussions on a society that is already having trouble maintaining wholesome stability in marriage and family life. If marriage and families are the foundation for a healthy society, introducing more uncertainty and instability in them will be bad for society.

In addition, we believe that gay marriage can only be imposed by activist judges, not by the democratic will of the people. The vast majority of people define marriage as the life-long union of a man and a woman. They will strongly resist redefinition. Like the 1973 judicial activism regarding abortion, the imposition of gay marriage would bring contempt for the law and our courts in the eyes of many Americans. It would exacerbate social conflict and division in our nation, a division that is already bitter and possibly dangerous.

In summary, we believe that the introduction of gay marriage will seriously harm Americans—including those in heterosexual marriages—over the long run. Strong political measures may be necessary to maintain the traditional definition of marriage, possibly even a constitutional amendment.

Some legal entitlements sought by gays and lesbians might be addressed by recognizing non-sexually defined domestic partnerships. But as for marriage, let us keep the definition as it is, and strengthen our capacity to live up to its ideals.

Robert Benne and Gerald McDermott, who both teach religion at Roanoke College, wrote an earlier version of this article for the Public Theology Project. Viewpoints published in “Speaking Out” do not necessarily represent those of Christianity Today.

Copyright © 2004 Christianity Today

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Additional resources:

National Organization for Marriage updates

Losses and Consequences – A pastor’s response to judge throwing out Proposition 8. (Added 11/10/11)

Gay Marriage: Even  Liberals Know It’s Bad - a conclusion based upon what’s best for our children and society by author Frank Turek. (added 11/9/11)

Myths, Facts, and Consequences of the Homosexual Lifestyle – compilation of information from doctors and other sources (CDC data) (added 6/25/11)

Health Risks of Gay Sex – by John R Diggs, Jr. M. D.   (added 6/25/11)

Institute for Marriage and Public Policy – Maggie Gallagher

Child Trends Research Briefs – a non-religious, nonprofit, nonpartisan research center that studies children at all stages of development.

Mapping America – Statistics that demonstrates,through data from major surveys, mainly U.S. federal surveys, that the intact married family and even unmarried two-parent biological families fare better than other families (single parent, same-sex parents, and etc.) (added 10/27)

A Further Betrayal of Children - a LifeSite Report

Sacrificing our children for same-sex ‘marriage’ - (WorldNetDaily.com)

A Gay Christian Movement Watch Exclusive: A Letter for Parents of Homosexual Children - (a deadly consequence of homosexuality)

Ten Arguments From Social Science Against Same-Sex ‘Marriage’ – Marriage between two biological parents is what’s best for children. (added 10/27/08)

Why Preserve Man-Woman Marriage – an incredible compilation of 20 reasons why marriage should be between a man and a woman. (added 10/29/08)

Playing the Race Card on Gay Marriage – Black Civil Rights and Gay rights not the same. See my 11/15/08 post on an article from the Boston Globe

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OPPOSING VIEWPOINT -Gay Marriage: The Arguments and the Motives - by Scott Bidstrup

The author, Scott Bidstrup, is a free-lance writer and political activist who has been active in human rights issues and in the gay rights movement, specializing in youth and marriage rights issues, since coming out as a gay man in 1994.

© 2008 – 2013, Carlotta Morrow. All rights reserved.

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89 Comments »

  1. miguel galvan says:

    well my point of view is that gay marriage is a sin i belive in god and as i do that i can see how many people menipulate the book of god and it can effect the children of the future if you have any questions email me @ m.galvan99@yahoo.com

  2. Oscar K says:

    Who do you think you are to judge other people on their sexual preferences? If you don’t like homosexuals or don’t agree with same sex marriage then that’s your own opinion, but there is no use making a blog about it portraying it has ‘wrong’ and ‘bad’ and trying to manipulate people to agree with you. I fully understand you are Christian and believe it is wrong, but God made each and every one different. He doesn’t judge, and will forgive us. You shouldn’t have the write to be able to criticize and write these hurtful comments about homosexuals. They are human as well, they are people and they have feelings. They are the same as every one of us, they are the same as you, and they just like the same sex. That is no big deal and the way you are carrying on about it, it’s like they have done something horrible. They are human beings and you have to learn to accept that. They haven’t done anything to harm you, so why so judgmental? What happens if one of your siblings turned out gay? Would you have this kind of attitude towards them? Would you treat them differently? Would you hate them? I don’t think you relies what you are saying is actually hurtful. So how dare you say they are ‘sin’, because they haven’t done anything wrong! They were born homosexual and they cannot help what they are! Why don’t you grow up and accept the fact the world isn’t perfect, the world isn’t what ‘think’ it should be and it never will be. Your comments are rude, judgmental, hurtful and most of all disgusting. Take a step back and look at yourself. Stop criticizing other people because you don’t like their sexual preferences. A relationship is for two people, and if they are happy let them be. They do not need your approval to be happy! If man and man are happy, or woman and woman, then obviously God would rather them be happy! So stop writing this crap and let people live the way they want and not what you ‘expect’ them to be. Grow up.

    • Carlotta Morrow
      Twitter: christocentric
      says:

      Oscar, I do have gay family members whom I am very close to. They know what I believe and we’ve had discussions about their homosexuality. We disagree and get on with life. We dine, go to the movies and live life normally after our disagreements so it is not a shock to my system that anyone can be gay.

      But to tell me to stop writing what I believe about homosexuality is not really the American way of doing things. Have I called gays names? Condemned them to death? Prevented them from being a human beings? If I am being offensive to you then it must be because I simply disagree with homosexuality.

      My blog’s title should tell you that I will always write from the Christ-centered perspective. Christ-centered is the meaning of Christocentric. So if my blog is extremely offensive to you, then by all means avoid it.

      But you have vented and what I am inviting you to do is some serious discussion about homosexuality or more importantly, serious discussions about what it means to love Jesus Christ.

      Well I’m open. Are you?

  3. Verbs says:

    There is nothing wrong with encouraging the acceptance homosexuality and bisexuality in society. It certainly won’t hurt anyone. It should be seen as normal and equal to heterosexuality, because it is! A huge benefit to society is that same-sex couples can adopt babies to give them a loving home and family.

    • Carlotta Morrow
      Twitter: christocentric
      says:

      Verbs, when you say “there is nothing wrong” with homosexuality and bisexuality in society, then you must ask by who’s standards? Are you a Christian? If not then what guides your life’s decisions and where do you learn right from wrong? If you are a Christian then you are clearly ignoring the book that gives guidance and instruction in every facet of the Christian life.

      God’s laws were written for our good and not His. But I created this post to show all the non-biblical evidences of families torn apart by sexual immorality as well as biblical support. The social scientists I’ve featured are brave enough to give compelling statistics on what makes the best case scenario for families and they all point to families with one married mother and father. Adoptions should never go to families that don’t have the traditional model so that children can grow up with the most stable environment.

      So hopefully you will find the time to examine the material on this page which is plentiful and insightful which will only support what God has already declared good – one man and one woman unified through marriage!

  4. ET says:

    not to mention 50% of heterosexual marriages end in divorce… I don’t think thats a good environment for a child…. It will not change the meaning of marriage because you are entitled to your own as am I..

  5. ET says:

    I was raised by lesbian parents.. NEVER EVER was i HURT in the process. I HAD 2 parents who loved me unconditionally! I HAVE successful and health relationship with the men in my life and have graduated at the top of my class… all of this is bogus…. If you really think that my family threatens your marriage… you should be in counseling… my family and your family have NEVER met.. we don’t effect you and vice versa.. My parents have been together for 25 years and have raised 3 healthy and happy successful children. If you’re marriage is invalidated by my parents who can now get married ( YAY MN). you obviously didn’t have a strong enough marriage if 2 women you have never met are making you feel threatened. I do not think your love for your partner is any less significant rather that my parents love is just as significant and sacred as yours is.

  6. JO says:

    It is so much to say. I will start with;
    1st. Children wit two men or two women, does not affect them. If you want to state that a man and a woman is better to raise a child(ren), I would disagree. Man and woman who stays together for the children, but don’t get along, or the family that fights in front of their kids, maybe the man or woman who don’t spend time with their kids. How about the man who don’t treats his wife with respect, or that man who comes in the house late from his cheating affairs. All these situations are what straight couples do, all these are situations that affect the children, but no one is concern about that. When homosexual couple get together it is not cause of what society, state for us to do, it is because they are in love. They provide that love down to their kids, and talk to them. This helps kids in all different ways.
    2. People have all this to say religious about being gay and it is not right and a sin. Judging is a sin, cheating while married, divorce, having kids but not married, killing, rape. I can go on and on, but the point to me saying all that is. People should worry about themselves, and what they are doing. Homosexuals do not affect any heterosexual person or their life. Stop trying to use the bible to justify why YOU think homosexual is wrong. You are JUDGING, and according to the bible that is wrong and it states it. People can’t help who they love. No mankind can not control “LOVE”. People don’t chose to be gay. Why will a man or a woman chose to be gay, and have to deal with people mistreating them, or being hurt cause of their lifestyle. That don’t make sense.
    When people don’t experience it, they don’t understand it.
    People only hate homosexuals because that is what society brainwash them to think. Children don’t grow up and just hate homosexuals, they are being taught that, or maybe seeing and hearing it from their friends/families.
    We as humans should love each other, no matter what. Instead we causing hate between us, we are killing each other for no good reasons. All because people want to worry about things and control things that is not in their control.
    For the people who have gay kids and they disowned them or stop communicating with them, they should be ashamed of themselves. Loving your child should be unconditional!

    • John says:

      So are you implying that same-sex couples are inherently perfect and don’t make mistakes like everyone else? Your logic is flawed, but it’s not your fault, the agenda you’re supporting is founded on flawed ideology.

    • Heidi Kostrzewa says:

      Jo(while, unfortunately you’ll probably never see this (but, maybe someone else will)…), do you know anyone who grew up as the child of a happy, homosexual marriage? If you have, you’ve probably heard them say, at one point of time or another, “Oh, yeah(in regards to some habit or skill- maybe organizational or culinary), my mom taught me that”, or you might also have heard them say, “My dad inspired my love for baseball.” Now, these are sterio-typical examples of differences in the interests and strengths of the different sexes. Having heterosexual parents creates the ability for a child to(on average) experience a broader range of activities. You might be thinking, “Oh, really! That’s just your take on this issue,” if you are, you’re right(in a sense) it is my opinion, however this concept has also be proven through the many surveys done on the issue- it’s a fact.
      As for heterosexual couples fighting, that’s bogus! :) Many, if not all couples fight. While I am not, by any means, excusing this behavior, I think it is silly that you’re trying to pinpoint it to one type of relationship.
      You’re correct again, in saying that judging is a sin(as well as the other sins you mentioned). However, what does that(or those) have to do with homosexual behaviors and marriages? You’re wrong in saying that the editor to this blog is sinning (or judging) by stating their opinion on homosexuality. There is one Bible verses in particular that I would especially like to bring to your attention, it is Galatians 6:1; it reads, “Brothers, if someone is caught in a sin, you who are spiritual should restore him gently. But watch yourself, or you also may be tempted”. To simplify this verse, it is saying that- If a Christian notices that someone is wandering into an unhealthy, sinful behavior, it is their JOB to point this out in a loving, but unwavering manner. God holds Christians responsible for this task(even if they will get in hot water with society because of it).(The verse also mentions that we are to do this “gently”, watching that we ourselves do not slip into sin by correcting them- possibly by saying that God no longer loves this homosexual(because he does love them-enough to die for them), or by saying they are going to hell because of their choice of lifestyle.)
      As for a person’s choice of life partner, of course a person can chose whom they marry. There are very few forced marriages here in the US. And, if you are attracted to someone of the same sex, that attraction will fade just like any other kind of crush. People DO chose to be gay- and that’s just it, it IS a choice.
      On the point of hating homosexuals… Children grow up to love, not hate, and unless there are outside influences, a child will only grow up in curiosity of a homosexual couple- especially if they have children. I myself have many(six) younger siblings, homosexual parents didn’t make sense to my young siblings. “How is it that those two guys have a kid?” (An especially inquisitive, and outgoing, little brother of mine wouldn’t fail to ask questions like that in public…) Homosexuality isn’t natural. If everyone were to become homosexual think how skewed our world would be!
      Finally, just to present statistics-
      1) Homosexual partners are the main cause of AIDS/HIV (which impacts all of America with the (literally) millions of dollars tax payers pay on health care for them).
      2) Family Stability??? Among homosexual men, sex with multiple partners is tolerated and often expected. One study in the Netherlands showed that homosexual men with a steady partner had an average of EIGHT sexual partners per year. If these behaviors are incorporated into what society affirms as “marriage,” then fidelity among heterosexuals would likely decline as well. (This bullet point was taken right off of the Family Research Council- I take no credit for it)
      3) Life-long marriages would continue to fade away as gay couples divorce even more frequently than heterosexual couples(this is even acknowledged by homosexual psychologists).

      I’m a big believer in traditional marriages, I’m also a conservative Christian. You may hate me for either one of those characteristics, but I believe with all my heart that heterosexual marriages, and relationships, are the only way to go- that belief is firmly founded in the Bible. I hope you have been positively impacted by reading this. God Bless your life here on earth see you in eternity!

  7. Erik says:

    Being gay is not a choice science, in fact, is actually not in dispute on this matter.

    All major medical professional organizations concur that sexual orientation is not a choice and cannot be changed, from gay to straight or otherwise. The American, Canadian, Australian, New Zealand, and European Psychological, Psychiatric, and Medical Associations all agree with this, as does the World Health Organization and the medical organizations of Japan, China, and most recently, Thailand. Furthermore, attempts to change one’s sexual orientation can be psychologically damaging, and cause great inner turmoil and depression, especially for Christian gays and lesbians.

    Reparative therapy, also called conversion therapy or reorientation therapy, “counsels” LGBT persons to pray fervently and study Bible verses, often utilizing 12-step techniques that are used to treat sexual addictions or trauma. Such Christian councilors are pathologizing homosexuality, which is not a pathology but is a sexual orientation. Psychologically, that’s very dangerous territory to tread on. All of the above-mentioned medical professional organizations, in addition to the American and European Counseling Associations, stand strongly opposed to any form of reparative therapy.

    In my home country, Norway, reparative therapy is officially considered to be ethical malpractice. But there are many countries that do not regulate the practice, and many others that remain largely silent and even passively supportive of it (such as the Philippines). Groups that operate such “therapy” in the Philippines are the Evangelical Bagong Pag-asa, and the Catholic Courage Philippines.

    The scientific evidence of the innateness of homosexuality, bisexuality, and transgenderism is overwhelming, and more peer-reviewed studies which bolster this fact are being added all the time. Science has long regarded sexual orientation – and that’s all sexual orientations, including heterosexuality – as a phenotype. Simply put, a phenotype is an observable set of properties that varies among individuals and is deeply rooted in biology. For the scientific community, the role of genetics in sexuality is about as “disputable” as the role of evolution in biology.

    On the second point, that there is no conclusion that there is a “gay gene,” they are right. No so-called gay gene has been found, and it’s highly unlikely that one ever will. This is where conservative Christians and Muslims quickly say “See, I told you so! There’s no gay gene, so being gay is a choice!”

    Take this interesting paragraph I found on an Evangelical website: “The attempt to prove that homosexuality is determined biologically has been dealt a knockout punch. An American Psychological Association publication includes an admission that there’s no homosexual “gene” – meaning it’s not likely that homosexuals are ‘born that way.'”

    But that’s not at all what it means, and it seems Evangelicals are plucking out stand-alone phrases from scientific reports and removing them from their context. This is known in academia as the fallacy of suppressed evidence. Interestingly, this is also what they have a habit of doing with verses from the Bible.

    This idea of sexuality being a choice is such a bizarre notion to me as a man of science. Many of these reparative “therapists” are basing this concept on a random Bible verse or two. When you hold those up against the mountain of scientific research that has been conducted, peer-reviewed, and then peer-reviewed again, it absolutely holds no water. A person’s sexuality – whether heterosexual, homosexual, or bisexual – is a very deep biological piece of who that person is as an individual.

    The fact that a so-called “gay gene” has not been discovered does not mean that homosexuality is not genetic in its causation. This is understandably something that can seem a bit strange to those who have not been educated in fields of science and advanced biology, and it is also why people who are not scientists ought not try to explain the processes in simple black-and-white terms. There is no gay gene, but there is also no “height gene” or “skin tone gene” or “left-handed gene.” These, like sexuality, have a heritable aspect, but no one dominant gene is responsible for them.

    Many genes, working in sync, contribute to the phenotype and therefore do have a role in sexual orientation. In many animal model systems, for example, the precise genes involved in sexual partner selection have been identified, and their neuro-biochemical pathways have been worked out in great detail. A great number of these mechanisms have been preserved evolutionarily in humans, just as they are for every other behavioral trait we know (including heterosexuality).

    Furthermore, there are many biologic traits which are not specifically genetic but are biologic nonetheless. These traits are rooted in hormonal influences, contributed especially during the early stages of fetal development. This too is indisputable and based on extensive peer-reviewed research the world over. Such prenatal hormonal influences are not genetic per se, but are inborn, natural, and biologic nevertheless.

    Having said that, in the realm of legal rights, partnership rights, and anti-discrimination protections, the gay gene vs. choice debate is actually quite irrelevant. Whether or not something is a choice is not a suitable criterion for whether someone should have equal rights and protections. Religion is indisputably a choice, but that fact is a not a valid argument for discriminating against a particular religion.

    • Where, in any scientific journal, or peer reviewed study, have scientist ever conclusively stated homosexuality is entirely natural? Any affirmative studies have forgotten, or misplaced, one of the fundamental rules of science: correlation isn’t equal to causation. Generally, any study I’ve ever read, to date, has been written in the language of probability. Could possibly be, might, might possibly…Gay defense mechanisms don’t validate homosexuality. What I’ve seen basically amounts to a bunch of homosexuals chasing the wind. Yes, the message of truth pricks homosexuals conscious, but the discomfort involved comes from the homosexual’s desire to maintain a gay lifestyle. I don’t believe it’s impossible for anyone to change. Given the right set of circumstances, change can be instantaneous. Oh, I don’t believe in ghost. Casper says, “Boo” one night….Now, I’m a believer. The truth of the matter is homosexuals don’t want to. It’s addictive for them. Lets stop the pretense it’s anything other than that.

      • Carlotta Morrow
        Twitter: christocentric
        says:

        The real truth of the matter is that there are many who DO want to change and do not desire to be gay. That’s a fact and there are many who have already changed from gay to straight who can attest to that. Of course, the question remains if anyone believes them or not.

  8. Sharon says:

    Hello, Carlotta! This is my first time seeing your post and I must say that as a Christian myself, I have a lot to say. First of all, to all those that are homosexual, I don’t hate you. I will say that homosexuality is a sin, according to God. I also think that deep down inside, whether they admit it or not, everyone knows that it is not right. First of all, I do know some gay people, both male and female and I treat them according to their personalities, the same as I treat everyone else. However, they know my feeling on the subject and some of them even agree. Redefining marriage to include gays is definitely not as innocent as some would have you to believe. I live in Maryland, and to my disappointment, same sex marriage was recently passed here. Homosexuality cannot be something someone is born with simply because babies are not sexual at all. If they were, newborns would be giving each other the “eye” in the nursery. It develops over time and sometimes it can be seen in young children. In my experience with gays, most of these people were molested as children and the ones who were not were still damaged in some way during their childhood. This may sound radical to some, but a Christian would understand, demonic influences are all around us. What you go through in your life, especially in your young life can open you up to these demonic influences. Case in point, I have a male cousin who was savagely raped by a “friend” of the family at the age of 6. He is now gay. A lady I knew was brutally raped by a 50 year old man when she was 8 and later seduced by one of her mother’s female “friends” at 14. She is bisexual. Two other male cousins were molested for years by their much older brother who was supposed to be “babysitting” them. They both turned out to be flaming gays. They are both now dead due to aids. The one gay guy that I know who was not molested was physically abused by his father and older brothers from childhood. He believes that he is gay because he did not want to be anything like his “macho” father and brothers.
    So you see, being gay usually stems from some tragic event that the gay person suffered from childhood. Satan preys on the weak, so these tormented souls, already confused, are easily convinced that they were “born that way.” What’s worse, is that society supports this theory, therefore validating the gay lifestyle, leading people to believe that it’s true. It is in fact a lie, coming straight from the pits of hell! Just like the sexual revolution of the 70’s convinced the masses that it was ok to have orgies, and swap mates. Satan and the kingdom of darkness is a completely immoral bunch, and their strategy is to convince people that right is wrong and wrong is right…AND THEY ARE SUCCEEDING!
    No, we should not shun gay people and treat them as less than human because we all have sinned, but at least help them to know that they are sinning instead of giving them this false sense of security. Now back to the effects that this lifestyle can have in the future: Think about Sodom and Gomorrah. Undoubtedly these people had become so amoral that they didn’t even know right from wrong, and didn’t care. If we continue to teach our kids that a dangerous immoral lifestyle is ok, can you even begin to imagine how the future generations of this world will be? The devil is a strategist, if you give him an inch, he’ll take a mile. If he can slowly chip away at morality, soon it will be gone! You can see it happening right now, look at how much music has changed! Movies, TV…even cartoons have become corrupt. But the world is blind to what is really going on and see it as no big deal. Atheists have taken over the airwaves and constantly make jokes that bash God. Years ago, this would have been unheard of, but guess what, this is all written in the Bible! Romans 1:21 -23 “Because that, when they knew God, they glorified Him not as God, neither were thankful, but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.” 22: “Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.” 23: “And changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.” Have you ever noticed how atheists seem to think they know all the answers to everything? They usually think that they are too smart to believe in God, when in fact it is the opposite! Also have you noticed that a lot of people who don’t agree with how God does things, so they try to make Him into what they want Him to be? This passage of scripture is dead-on in describing many people today. Back to Sodom and Gommorah…there was obviously a lot of homosexuality among other sexual immorality going on in those days. Those cities were probably much like the world is today, anything goes. It was so bad that when two of the Lord’s angels came to see Lot, the men of the city wanted to have sex with them and became so insisting that Lot offered his virgin daughters to them to keep them away from the angels! But those men didn’t even want the girls, they insisted on being with the two angels that they thought were merely men, and they threatened Lot and actually tried to break down the door to get to them! If we keep validating sin, it can and will spin out of control! It may be several generations from now, but this world is on its way to being worse than Sodom and Gommorah! It is the strategy of Satan and his kingdom!

    • Carlotta Morrow
      Twitter: christocentric
      says:

      Sharon thanks for stopping by and sharing your very insightful comments! I agree with most of what you wrote with perhaps the one exception of gays being gay due to a tragic event in their life. Many are exposed to homosexuality due to those reasons, but many are gay just based upon their associations and desires. For example, I have a son who played major division one college basketball and had made friends with many of the lady basketball players. At the beginning of the season only two of the young ladies were known lesbians. Before the year had ended all but two of their teammates had “turned.” I guess we still could call this tragic, tragic that most of these young ladies had no sense of morality about them!

      Anyways, your comments are spot on and I do appreciate you stopping by and sharing your wonderful and biblically based opinions!

  9. Alex Summers says:

    I realize this is a Christian based site and I’ll respect the opinions that come based upon the Bible as being very close and dear to all your hearts. I, for lack of time don’t have the privilege to read every comment made, but a few I did get to read and the responses made by the author trouble me somewhat.

    I would have hoped that the liberties granted by the state and federal divisions would not rely upon the Bible so heavily as our country was founded on the principle of freedom of religion. I ask then, what of the religions that speak no ill of homosexuality and/or the marital unions between two people of the same gender; but speak to the glories of commitment and love? What of their religious freedoms in which you are aspiring to circumvent?

    I also had a chance to research the David Parker case. The man was arrested after school hours, after being asked numerous times to leave the property. I understand his complaint, however our schools are supposed to be designed to ready children for life here on this planet. That means introducing them to comfortable and uncomfortable realities. Such as paying bills, finding a job, dealing with difficult people, sharing and social situations. The book in question “Who’s in a Family” that Mr. Parker became obsessed about is very benign, and it’s about WHO is in a family, NOT their marital status. It doesn’t teach sex, it doesn’t mention homosexuality or heterosexuality. There could be any number of explanations as to why there are 2+ male or female adult figures within the family that’s being portrayed. Aunts, older sisters, family friends, in home care provider, nanny… etc. Regardless of the obvious, even if it was two daddies or two mommies, it is a possible family dynamic that should be exposed to children now so they don’t assume or say something extremely negative later by simple assumption.

    Here is the interesting slice of psychology behind those “frightening” statistics. The continued discrimination, alienation and ostracization of homosexuals often leads to an underground motif of rebellion that continues to lend to “frighteningly” unhealthy habits such a promiscuity and failed relationships. It’s hard enough for a married couple to endure each other for so long, add to this the continually expressed resentments and division you get a very difficult roller coaster. A lot of these “truths” could be inflicted by the very people who are trying so hard to point them out!

    People are upset because they may have to rent to a homosexual, or let one into the hospital, or allow them in a cab, use the same toilet or goodness forbid being a sperm donor for one? Other posters have been kind enough to point out how seriously this defies the teachings of Jesus. He didn’t preach about separating ourselves from humanity, but to bring us together. If you dare to say the Bible is the word of God, and Jesus was the only one without sin to walk the earth, and you know the Bible was written by anyone but Jesus, you must too admit the Bible was written then by sinners. However close to the Holy Spirit you or they may be or been, it does not give you the permission to judge and execute others. In denying two people the satisfaction of being together you are imposing YOUR will upon them, for if God wanted it, God would surely judge them and would surely find peace in knowing that God, being just, will handle it and you need but dust your boots off.

    This cylindrical debate of pointing out how wrong something is and imposing YOUR will should come to an end. God has not placed you, or any other human for that matter, above his most righteous judgement. In then end (as given by your Bible) it is Jesus who will abdicate himself to save you and everyone else who rests belief in HIM. It seems to me that you can’t battle homosexuality as a whole without referring to a Bible passage. If this is the type of education you will for your child, it would be best to send them to a Christian School and not a PUBLIC school. God forbid if they become so sheltered as to pass from a heart attack at something so “unnatural” as two men or women walking down a street holding hands. YOU are responsible for your own actions and reactions. It is YOUR mind and discomforts you choose not to exercise. Next time you feel that stomach wrenching at two passing homosexuals, take a moment to remind yourself.. You are your own temple.

  10. Joshua Charles says:

    Hi, I am not Homosexual. I have lived a drug corroded life. I have eaten from sewers. I have slept in places you would consider very dangerous, and un inhabitable to a civilized man. 5 years ago, I turned my life around. Not with God. Not With my Sexuality, With Myself. I live my life right. I donate my time at my local healthcare community, Aiding the Sick, and Dying. I see alot of people that were in my shoes. Last year I met Rob. Rob was a Gay man from Michigan, He was previously in a relationship with a handsome young man named Jeff. Rob and Jeff owned a business. Traveled the world. They were two young men with everything America and life had to offer them. Robs Parents, he told me were very understanding people. Jeff’s, however were not. They didn’t Accept their son for being gay. They were very Angry by it. Rob showed me many pictures of the two together in fascinating countries. Pictures of there business, and the wonderful honest life they lived. Then suddenly, a freak accident occurred, And Jeff lost his life. Rob Called Jeff’s parents who flew out to check on the situation, by that time Jeff had already been declared dead. Jeff’s, mother Informed Rob that he should pay for the funeral, and all expenses with the hospital and to ship Jeff’s body back to his family in Ohio, Rob Agreed of course. After all this was the 10 year love of his life, his everything. Jeff’s mother checked with the doctors, and quickly left, informing Rob she would keep him posted. After a Few days Rob got his things and headed to Ohio to his former loves funeral, In Chicago he was told by Jeff’s family he was not welcome, and if he showed up there would be serious and physical issues. Rob, a sobbing Wreck. returned to his home. Denied his last farewell to not his Lover, His best friend. Days past. He grew restless, he needed answers. He went to the hospital. The Doctors informed him any information was withheld to anyone but family, and he was not authorized to view any of their records, to Contact Jeff’s parents, and work it out. Of course Jeff’s parents did not reply. Soon he was informed through other financial business’s that Jeff’s stock in the company he build was sold. Due to Jeff’s parents taking control of his assets. Which in turn, directly attributed to the loss of his business. Here was an American, Who paid his taxes. Lived a Normal, HEALTHY life. Due to Marriage laws, all this happened to Rob. Imagine for one moment if this was you and your wife. Imagine yourself in your brothers shoes. Helpless. All because people think its some form of ancient moral. All because you, A man. Think you should have the ability, To Vote on another mans Earth given right as a animal species of this planet. Did you know every form of life on this planet, Both Animal and Plant. Willingly take part in homosexual partnerships for life. The Fact that Sex is so depraved in our age it doesn’t matter if its hetero or homo, Unhealthy and Harmful effects will ensue. I would Also like to point out over Half of recorded AIDS/HIV cases are in heterosexual individuals. Then the issue of society. You honestly think, making Gay Marriage legal, Would cause our future children to choose a Homosexual Life Style. Please then tell me more about the time you decided to be Heterosexual. These People are in LOVE, but shouldn’t be allowed to because you cant sit down and have a 5 minute conversation with your children. The Only Living, Breathing, Real thing that has ever declared as homosexuality as being “wrong” is you. You and this website devoted to spilling Half truths, to Confuse and scare people into a decision they should be allowed to let happen naturally. You didn’t naturally think Gay meant bad, No. A Book Written 2000 Years ago roughly translated between 7 different languages before reaching your English eyes, Told you so. God doesn’t just tell you to hate homosexuality, he tells you to eradicate it. He tells you to Kill anyone who partakes in it. Here is the Curve ball Ladies and Gentlemen. I used to be a Preacher. I used to stand in front of hundreds and teach the will and understanding of our God. I used to tell people that being gay was a Sin. Then I realized, The bible has zero relevance to my time. To our Age the bible is like Math Text book from 1932. How many new things have we learned. How many Theories to Life have we solved and Come so far as to cure diseases that have wiped out civilizations for years. You think god helped us with that? He gave us the intelligence and will, to figure it all out on our own. To bad we cant cure Ignorance. Would you honestly wake up if you could? From this unrealistic reality were we all live by rules made in a society who couldn’t even comprehend a cell phone or its uses. Yet, here you stand today, thinking we have the right to tell someone they cannot be married, It wasn’t until the 1200’s Marriage was even considered between 1 man 1 woman. In Ancient Greece to lay beside your brothers after battle was an honor. You consider this page an educational source for people trying to find the truth. All you have accomplished is breeding more hate, intolerance, ignorance, and lies. Thank you for sending American civilization BACK to the 1950’s. I can dig out so many documents from then showing the negative health affects and unmoral values of Marrying an African American, You are none the same. A laughable and inevitable failure to time. Thank you for your time if you read this, I wish you health and the best in life possible. Now grow up.

    • Carlotta Morrow
      Twitter: christocentric
      says:

      Joshua, your comment, “The bible has zero relevance to my time” explains your entire note. If the bible has no relevance to you then naturally, anything about life, relationships with people and with God have no real meaning. Sin is the disobedience to God’s laws which are found in the bible and imprinted upon our minds and hearts. The bible lays out God’s will for mankind as well as showing us God’s love for us. If you reject His words found in the bible then basically you are choosing to live your life as you please without a care for God’s laws, so naturally who you love will have no boundaries.

      God’s word is just as relevant to us today as it was back in biblical times. We need God’s word now more than ever because our society is going down the dumps!

  11. sara says:

    As Christians there are so many other issues that actually harm people. Why are you really choosing to focus on this? Why don’t you feed the hungry or help the homeless instead of trying to make your prejudice “holy” by hiding under the umbrella of religion. You know there were gay people back in the days of Jesus too, but Jesus didn’t set up a campaign against them, he had bigger issues. Maybe you should try to be more like Jesus and solve actual problems. Guess what, gay people are living with each other and having sex with each other, we have decriminalized gay sex. Effectively these gay people that live together are “married” only they don’t have any of the rights given to other people who are so committed. I don’t consider you to be a christian, because you aren’t properly representing the message of Jesus.

    • Carlotta Morrow
      Twitter: christocentric
      says:

      Sara, not properly representing the message of Jesus? Do you know what Jesus says about marriage? Here is what He says when answering the Pharisees’ question about divorce:

      4 And He answered and said to them, “Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’ 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? 6 So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.” Matthew 19:4-6

      Jesus Himself referred back to Genesis in the creation of Adam and Eve and even gave an admonishment for man not to break what God has put together. God didn’t put together at the beginning of creation male and male nor female and female. He put together male and female and there is NO WHERE in the bible that supports homosexual unions – but quite the opposite.

      So when saying that a Christian isn’t properly representing the message of Jesus, it is very important that one knows what Jesus is speaking about a particular subject. He didn’t speak against homosexuality in this passage, but he made it very clear His definition of what marriage is – as it was in the beginning, male and female…

      • Gary McCarty says:

        This refers to procreation and the need for straight couples to stay together. This has nothing to do with being gay. If you want to give hard facts, quote me anything from the bible that says being gay is a sin. You won’t because god gave is children a natural population control. Having gays keep the population in check. Further more, allowing gay marriage will lessen diseases spread from uncommitted people, and lessen the amount of orphans in the world. Why fight things that heterosexuals only continual contributes to.

        • Carlotta Morrow
          Twitter: christocentric
          says:

          Gary, not only does Jesus not mention marriage between same sexes, but no where in the entire bible is same sex marriage mentioned as well. The scriptures that are both in Old and New Testament against homosexual sex are the following: Leviticus 18:22, Leviticus 20:13, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 and Romans 1:26-28.

          If you’ve read this blog post completely, you would have come across the section from doctor’s perspectives who give plenty of medical reasons why homosexuality’s unnatural sex causes a multitude of medical problems. And as far as natural population control, quite the opposite commandment of God telling mankind to “be fruitful and multiply.” (Genesis 1:22) God is not too concerned in controlling the population, especially by any unnatural means.

  12. Shane says:

    gay marriage will not affect the following:
    -your right as heterosexuals to marry
    -your right as Christians to attend church services
    -your right to continue discriminating against homosexuals
    -your chances of getting into heaven
    If people want to get married it has nothing to do with you, it DOES not affect you! your “facts” are invalid, poorly researched and have no evidence. The only thing that will happen if gays are allowed to get married, is that gays will get married. If you want to blame someone for gay marriage, blame straight people. They are the ones who keep having gay children!!

  13. Jesse says:

    Among some of the APA’s findings, which have been corroborated by every other reputable psychological AND pediatric society :

    The results of some studies suggest that lesbian mothers’ and gay fathers’ parenting skills may be superior to those of matched heterosexual couples. For instance, Flaks, Fischer, Masterpasqua, and Joseph (1995) reported that lesbian couples’ parenting awareness skills were stronger than those of heterosexual couples. This was attributed to greater parenting awareness among lesbian nonbiological mothers than among heterosexual fathers. In one study, Brewaeys and her colleagues (1997) likewise reported more favorable patterns of parent-child interaction among lesbian as compared to heterosexual parents, but in another, they found greater similarities (Vanfraussen, Ponjaert-Kristoffersen, & Brewaeys, 2003). A recent study of 256 lesbian and gay parent families found that, in contrast to patterns characterizing the majority of American parents, very few lesbian and gay parents reported any use of physical punishment (such as spanking) as a disciplinary technique; instead, they were likely to report use of positive techniques such as reasoning (Johnson & O’Connor, 2002). Certainly, research has found no reasons to believe lesbian mothers or gay fathers to be unfit parents (Armesto, 2002; Barret & Robinson, 1990; Bigner & Bozett, 1990; Bigner & Jacobsen, 1989a, 1989b; Bos et al., 2003, 2004; Bozett, 1980, 1989; Patterson, 1997; Patterson & Chan, 1996; Sbordone, 1993; Tasker & Golombok, 1997; Victor & Fish, 1995; Weston, 1991). On the contrary, results of research suggest that lesbian and gay parents are as likely as heterosexual parents to provide supportive home environments for children.

    • Carlotta Morrow
      Twitter: christocentric
      says:

      I don’t respect much with what the APA is putting out because they are already coming from a very biased position when they make the following claim:

      “Insufficient Evidence that Sexual Orientation Change Efforts Work, Says APA” and that “Practitioners should avoid telling clients they can change from gay to straight.

      When a professional organization states that there is “insufficient evidence” that sexual orientation changes do take place and people are happier with it, then it is ignoring the thousands of people who have already experienced successful transitions from gay to straight. That also tells me that this is not an organization that I can trust in any of their research data. So I’ve ignored the APA because in my opinion, they can not be depended upon for accurate information. Their bias is even affecting their scientific research.

      • Jesse says:

        I think you reject their findings because they don’t support your prejudices. But setting the APA aside for now…

        What about all the other national mental health and child care societies in this nation that have come to similar conclusions as the APA? Are you really saying that ALL of them are biased somehow too? Can you prove what you’re saying?

  14. Jesse says:

    Oh, and here is the American Psychological Association’s research on gay parents:

    http://www.apa.org/pi/lgbt/resources/parenting.aspx

    Interesting reading, with summaries of other organizations’ stances on same sex parents and SSM.

  15. Jesse says:

    Carlotta, it’s absurd to say that homosexuality doesn’t feel right to most people when most people are heterosexual. It’s like saying that lefthandedness doesn’t feel right to most people. Of course it doesn’t!

    Homosexuality isn’t SUPPOSED to feel “right” to straight people, just as heterosexuality doesn’t feel right to gay people. And I don’t mean morally. I don’t care who you’re attracted to, it’s none of my business and your sexuality doesn’t make you a better or worse or more moral or less moral person than anyone else. It isn’t the measure of morality in my book. By right or wrong I mean instinctually natural or unnatural. And most gay people who’ve had heterosexual relationships before will tell you that while those relationships were moral enough, they didn’t feel natural, or at least not as natural as their homosexual ones.

  16. Jesse says:

    Point by point:

    1) You can’t pretend that SSM’s don’t exist. There’s nothing wrong with simply knowing that sometimes people of the same gender fall in love and marry. Books like “King and King” aren’t teaching gay SEX. Just that same sex couples are a fact of life, and whether or not you accept it, you do have to tolerate it, especially in schools where some students are children of same sex parents. Same sex couples are everywhere, but it sounds like you just don’t want any mention of them made anywhere (unless of course it’s to say how awful they are). Well, I’m sure some people found it appalling that kids’ books started featuring interracial couples once miscegenation laws were abolished, but sorry, that’s life. You can’t keep kids ignorant to innocuous truths just because they make you uncomfortable.

    2) So what’s wrong with this exactly?

    3) Every reputable psychological and pediatric society in this nation agrees that there’s nothing keeping gay people from raising normal, healthy kids, including the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the American Medical Association, the American Academy of Pediatrics, the National Association of Social Workers, and the American Counseling Association. I’ve seen some studies that say kids do best with two or both parents, but none that say those two parents can’t possibly be of the same gender. At any rate, many kids are orphans and don’t have any parents at all. If you’re not going to adopt them, why not let people who are capable or raising them adopt them? And many gay people are raising biological children, either from artificial insemination or from previous heterosexual unions. If you really think that all kids should only be raised by 2 biological parents, then your problem is not with SSM, but with civil marriage in general. SSM isn’t a new or different type of marriage. It’s simply an extension of existing civil marriage laws. So go out and try to change those laws, just understand that doing so affects many heterosexual couples too.

    4) Such as? You can’t just say something and claim it’s true. Got any examples? I can give you a good example of how SSM hasn’t harmed society; Massachusetts. Gay marriage was legalized here in 2003 and it’s become a total non-issues. Society didn’t crumble. Things didn’t go down that slippery slope anti-SSM naysayers always make predictions about. We still have one of the lowest divorce rates in the nation, far lower than many states with bans on gay marriage. Our economy is actually recovering a little bit faster than the national average. Gay and straight people are getting along as they did before. Gay people aren’t demanding more rights than straight people have. I haven’t heard of any grave social consequences in any of the other states and nations where gay marriage is legal. There’s far more evidence that SSM is harmless to society than harmful. The only people who have been “harmed” are those who just can’t stand the idea of gay citizens being treated the same as they are under the law.

    5) Gay people and religion aren’t mutually exclusive. Many gay people are religious and not all religious people think there’s anything wrong with gay people. There have always been gay-affirming churches, temples and synagogues. Those in my area weren’t forced to accept gay people and their relationships. They just feel it’s the only godly thing to do. And that’s THEIR religious freedom. If you could look past your own selfishness, you’d see that there is MORE religious freedom now that same sex marriages blessed by affirming churches can be protected equally under state law.

    • Carlotta Morrow
      Twitter: christocentric
      says:

      Thanks for your well thought out comments Jesse and as time permits I will get through each one of them. But starting with your first:
      #1 – Because many parents view homosexuality as immorality, all they want is to simply have the choice to opt-out of any classroom taught subject regarding it. No one is pretending that SSM doesn’t exist, but parents do want control in any objectionable material taught to their children. If children are being taught that it ISN’T ok to be gay at home, then they don’t want them in a classroom that teaches it is ok.
      #2 – What’s wrong with this? Wrong with changing paperwork to include a mismatch of coupling? That question will be left to the eye of the beholder.
      #3 – You are ignoring the facts of raising children in SSM homes. The BEST for children’s emotional, spiritual and mental stability is in a non-turbulent household with a mother and father. SSM families actually even do better than some single-parent households (from which category I’m placed) but the BEST isn’t to be ignored. Modern day psychologists are irrationally hostile toward religions and aren’t respected among the religious community. They are hostile to the point that they ignore true scientific data to exert their anti-religious dogmas. Examples coming up in my response to you post on the APA.
      #4 – As a Christian, freedom of my beliefs is essential and when that freedom is trampled upon then living does become a problem. As homosexuality becomes more acceptable, those of us who believe it is not an acceptable life style will receive more and more hostility from governments all the way to individuals. Sean McDowell gives a few examples in the following video (on the blog) with examples of how same-sex marriage could be detrimental to an individual or group of people. http://youtube/vy639NFMngM

      #5 – Gay people and religion is an oxymoron. You can’t be considered especially a Christian and Gay at the same time. Gay people have a tendency to rewrite the bible and/or to reject its words completely while making up their own “beliefs.” Christians view practicing gays as extremely rebellious and self-centered people who are unwilling to obey God and leave their unbiblical lifestyles. That is one reason why if every single state legalizes same sex marriage that Gays will be still searching for acceptance from the large group of true believers who reject the abominable sin of homosexuality.

      More responses to your other comments are to follow!

      • Jesse says:

        1). Just because you find something to be immoral doesn’t mean that you can shield your kids from something they ought to know. You may think that interracial marriage is immoral, but there’s nothing illegal about it, and interracial marriage is a fact of life that kids have to learn to tolerate. If you want to put morality ahead of reality, put your kids in a Christian or Catholic school. Just realize that most Catholics also support SSM, according to the latest research. It’s not a negative thing to teach kids tolerance, and tolerance is all that’s being put forth in public schools, just as tolerance for your and others’ religions are taught. You can’t pick and choose which things kids should be tolerant of.

        2) Your piece here is about the negative effects of SSM, and you listed gender-neutral spousal descriptions on marriage applications. So what, EXACTLY, is the negative effect of this?

        3) The studies that show that kids do best with both biological parents are comparing this to single-parent households; same sex couples are not factored in. When they ARE factored in, it’s found that their kids are just as normal and healthy as any others. This is confirmed not JUST by the APA, but by EVERY reputable psychological and pediatric society in this country, as I’ve listed above. Do you really think that ALL of them are biased in some way? Is it really that impossible that they’ve all used their professionalism and resources to discover something that you disagree with? Sorry, but I’ll take the findings of those who should know better over those who really do have a clear bias.

        5) This is your opinion. Not every religious person feels the way you do. That’s why Anglicans now ordain gay clergymen and why there is no strict admonishment against gay people in Buddhism. As I said, many churches, temples and synagogues have been blessing gay marriages for decades now. What has been the negative effect of this?

        All this aside, you can always believe whatever YOU want, but just realize that others can believe what they want too. That’s why we have freedom of and freedom FROM religion in the U.S. Luckily what the SSM issue is about is not religious marriage, but CIVIL marriage. People tend to forget the difference. Gay people don’t want to make you accept anything. There are already plenty of religious organizations that do. They just want CIVIL marriage so they can protect their relationships, households and families under the law just like any other law-abiding citizens.

        • Carlotta Morrow
          Twitter: christocentric
          says:

          Regarding civil marriage, what you don’t understand is that lawmakers make decisions based upon what they believe is true and what is right. The conservative lawmaker with a strong conscious will always vote against gay marriage because of his belief that homosexuality is immoral. In other words, devoutly religious people just don’t lay their beliefs at the church door and then go on about life. What one believes encompasses every facet of living. So yes, people can believe whatever they want including those who believe gay marriage is wrong. Unfortunately many like yourself don’t want people like me to bring our beliefs outside of churches and our homes.

          And interracial marriage is not immoral and no where can a person explain it in both OT and NTestaments as being immoral as homosexuality is. The scriptures are pretty clear on the offense of sexual sin and one of which is homosexuality. One can not justify it or get around it without making oneself look completely foolish and blinded to the truth of God’s word. I cringe whenever the comparison to gay rights and interracial marriage is brought up because it is not even close to being the same!

          (More on the APA coming later!)

          • Jesse says:

            Carlotta, a growing majority of Americans support SSM, and lawmakers are listening to their constituents and passing SSM bills like the one in New York recently. Obviously, fewer and fewer people find anything inherently immoral about their gay fellow citizens.

            There is a good reason why religion should be kept personal; religion is such a subjective thing to begin with, and we have separation of church and state in the U.S. We have the freedom to choose what we believe, and we have freedom of and FROM religion. Religion is not the measure of what are laws are. They are the measure for YOUR own behavior, not anyone else’s.

            Some people complain about gay people shoving their lives into other people’s faces, when here you are saying your own lifestyle and religion should extend beyond your church and your home. That sounds pretty hypocritical to me.

            There was a time, Carlotta, when many people DID find interracial marriage to be immoral and used religion to back up their beliefs. Religion can be used to support the execution of gay people, as it says to do in Leviticus. The same religion can be used to support SSM. Religion is subjective, and that’s exactly why we have separation of church and state in this nation.

          • Carlotta Morrow
            Twitter: christocentric
            says:

            Separation of CHURCH and state – not separation of BELIEFS and state. If you truly study our constitution you will find that the phrase church and state aren’t even included within it. But that’s a different story. And the difference between me living out my lifestyle and you living out yours is the offense to God. One’s lifestyle isn’t while the other’s is. But since we are a democratic and not theocratic society, then it is the numbers that decide what will be.

            Jessie, we’ll have to agree to disagree at this point and all I truly care right now is whether you know our God, His Son Jesus Christ. Jesus paid the penalty for ALL of OUR sins and what would keep you from believing in Him and accepting Him as your Lord and savior?

      • Jesse says:

        Oh, and what is this monolithic gay “lifestyle” you speak of with such expertise? Do you know my own life better than I do? What is the straight “lifestyle” for that matter?

        Here’s my lifestyle:

        I go to work, pay my taxes and play gigs out with my straight bandmates. I go bike riding, teach adults how to edit video at the local public access TV station and tutor seniors in computers on the side. I go out for drinks with my gay and straight friends, and none of us give a damn what each other’s sexuality is. We go to each other’s weddings, gay and straight, and have a great time whenever we get together for such occasions. I keep in touch with my family on Facebook and visit them once a year. My boyfriend and I like to cook and then snuggle in front of the TV. I play with my cat, work out and do yoga.

        What about all of this is so horrible, sinful and disgusting that I don’t deserve equal access to civil liberties?

        Like it or not, law-abiding gay people pay their taxes and contribute to society. You can’t ask people to pay their dues and then not let them into the club. They bag your groceries, teach your kids, fight your wars, perform your surgeries and make your favorite entertainment. People seem happy enough to take advantage of the contributions gay people make until they ask to be treated as equal partners in this country.

        • Carlotta Morrow
          Twitter: christocentric
          says:

          What you do privately is your own business, but when it is brought out in the public and imposed upon others where it affects what our children learn in school, our jobs (having to pass out marriage licenses to immoral people), and even to the point of blackmailing people and making lives miserable for those who don’t vote for your lifestyle (such as the Prop 8 donors), then it becomes everyone’s business.

          When I speak of the gay lifestyle, I speak of the lifestyle which is defiant to God privately and publicly. The lifestyle that flaunts their sin rather then keep it behind closed doors. The lifestyle that insists that others accept it or incur the LGBT wrath! It is extremely sad when churches also no longer hold on to the truth of God’s word and accepts the sin of homosexuality. The apostle Paul wrote stern chastisements of such behavior in the bible when he gave an example of it in the following verses:

          “It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that is not tolerated even among pagans, for a man has his father’s wife. 2 And you are arrogant! Ought you not rather to mourn? Let him who has done this be removed from among you.” 1 Corinthians 5:1-3

          The adultery/incest was but one example of a sexual sin and how it should be dealt with. But this passage also characterizes whats going on in the homosexual lifestyle. Arrogant to believe that the Gay lifestyle SHOULD be practiced and no consciousness with mourning – an attitude to seek a change. That attitude has prevailed in the many people who have changed and left the gay lifestyle. This passage also was specific instructions on what to do with Christians who practiced sin and part of the church. Because Paul eventually explains that the person should be removed completely from the congregation.


          “9 I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. 10 Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. 11 But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner—not even to eat with such a person.
          12 For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside? 13 But those who are outside God judges. Therefore “put away from yourselves the evil person.” 1 Corinthians 5:9-12

          ….but those who are outside God judges. God will judge the unbeliever but Christians must deal with those who believe they are Christian yet persist in a sexual behavior that God clearly has defined as sin in the bible.


          “9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.” 1 Corinthians 6:9-10

          Jesse, are you a believer or non-believer?

        • Jesse says:

          The fact that our Constitution is devoid of any religious language and the fact that it states that we shall not make any law respecting an establishment of religion, sends a clear message about religion’s place in the government. Of course your beliefs influence your personal ethics, but they should not influence public policy. As far as the Constitution is concerned, your religious beliefs aren’t necessarily any better or more moral than anyone else’s So YOU may think gay people are an offense to god, but not everyone believes as you do, and their religious beliefs are every bit as valid as yours.

          For example, if you think it’s morally wrong for our government to impose prohibition of alcohol on us, any religious reasons (“god doesn’t want or approve of prohibition” for example) are not to be considered when deciding public policy. You have to have clear, completely Constitutional arguments for or against it. You can be as religious as you like, but neither the Bible, the Torah nor the Koran are what we use in this nation to make our laws. The Constitution is.

          It’s troubling that you see gay people as what they do and not what they are. How inhumane! Even when a gay person isn’t “doing” anything, she’s still gay. A straight virgin knows he’s straight even though he hasn’t “done” anything, and it’s the same for gay people. Is your sexuality simply a matter of what you do? Can you really reduce human sexuality to mere sexual activity? Gay people feel love, attraction and attachment in exactly the same innate, natural way that you do. It isn’t just about what they “do”.

          Even so, your religious behavior isn’t innate either. If you think being gay is a choice, realize that being a Christian is a choice as well, and your freedom to choose and engage in your religious behaviors and traditions are protected under the Constitution. I fully and truly support that. Why can’t you give others the same courtesy? Would you like it if people’s Muslim or Buddhist beliefs were influencing laws that affect your right to engage in your own religious behavior?

          Btw, you never explained what you find so objectionable about my “lifestyle”. Care to elaborate using my own word for what my life is?

      • Jesse says:

        Oh, I forgot number 4:

        Which of your freedoms are being threatened? You can still believe that homosexuality is wrong if you want to. You aren’t going to be forced to accept anything you don’t want to. If you don’t want to get into a same sex marriage, you don’t have to. If you think it’s wrong, you’re free to tell your kids so. Your right to disapprove of SSM would still exist, just like your right to disapprove of atheism or anything else.

        Here in Massachusetts, straight people have all the same rights they used to. Some churches still find SSM unacceptable and they’re free to exercise their religious freedom as they wish. None of my straight friends have complained that they’ve lost anything since SSM was legalized here. I don’t think they’d be such close friends with so many gay people if they felt that they’ve had their rights stripped away.

        I know that some people would wish that everyone else would disapprove of SSM as much as they do, but that reality that you’ll have to face is that not everyone agrees with you, and they have a right to civil liberties.

        You talk as if no gay people are religious, or as if gay people want to restrain liberty. Supporters of SSM only want gay people to be able to fully exercise the same right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness that you do.

        • Carlotta Morrow
          Twitter: christocentric
          says:

          Jesse, much of what you are asking you’ve already asked and we’re merely going round in circles. Please review my earlier comments and/or post. The bottomline is that same-sex marriage is more than the pursuit of a groups happiness, but the structure of the family and how it affects the culture. When the family breaks down and children are raised in gender confusion, to be taught that marrying anyone of any sex doesn’t matter, tears at the very unique differences in men and women and what makes a family work. That is the real danger in same-sex marriages. The other dangers I won’t even repeat again as I’ve already written about. That’s why this is different than interracial marriages. As long as its a man and a woman in an interracial marriage, they still contain the necessary primary ingredients in family stability.

          And yes, any agency that doesn’t base their material on true measurable facts, I will not respect much at all. In fact as our nation gravitates more and more upon SSM acceptance, I wouldn’t be surprise at a flip-flop from organizations that at one time were bold enough to say that a family needs both a mother and a father.

          Times are sadly changing and our nation will suffer the consequences.

          • Jesse says:

            I didn’t ask what your opinion of how SSM affects parenting. As far as I’m concerned, from the majority of research and from observing real life same sex parents, as well as the fact that gay people have been successfully raising kids for decades, your notions about what “real” parenting is is completely your own subjective opinion. And that’s fine as long as you realize it’s an opinion.

            But you said your rights were being violated? Which of your rights are being restricted by the legalization of SSM? Specific rights, not just that you can’t avoid same sex couples as much as you’d like to now.

            You keep talking about consequences, but you fail to give specifics about that too. So let me ask you these two questions:

            1) Which rights have been taken away from heterosexuals in Massachusetts since SSM was legalized here? I have many straight friends and you say that legalizing SSM takes away their rights. They’ve never mentioned anything to anyone about what rights they’re now being denied… What should they know?

            2) How has society as a whole been affected negatively here in Massachusetts? What is so drastically different and worse than it was before 2003 when SSM was legalized here? Is our economy sinking? No, it’s recovering faster than most other states’ economies. Is heterosexual marriage threatened? No, straight people are still getting married and with a consistently low divorce rate? Are churches being forced to accept SSM’s? No, churches are still free to exercise their first amendment religious rights. So what, exactly are the real, community-wide, catastrophic consequences that have taken place since 2003 here in MA?

          • Carlotta Morrow
            Twitter: christocentric
            says:

            Jesse, you can’t talk about marriage without talking about children and parenting. You may have not asked my opinion but it was very important to inject children since even in many SSMarriages, children are also wanted. Reread my post again as far as what rights are being taken away as a result of legalization of same sex marriage. And especially with a few cases in Massachusetts involving parents and children’s schools.

            Negative effects of SSM have some immediate consequences but the most damaging of consequences will be over a long period of time. Homosexuality is just a part of our overall decay as it joins all other forms of sexual immorality. Our culture is steeped in sexual looseness and debauchery and is reflected today in our music, movies and just life in general. No boundaries on what is acceptable sex means anything goes! Just heard in the news last night that polygamists are suing to make their relationships legal. Their claim is that, “nobody should care what we do in our bedroom and how we want to form our relationships.” Sound familiar? This is something that anti-SSMers have been saying all along. Legalize same-sex marriages and the floodgates will open!

            As far as the constitution is concerned, it may not have used religious terms but it was formed by men who loved God and their consciousnesses were very involved in the writing. More on the constitution and it’s religious leanings read up here: http://www.wallbuilders.com/LIBissuesArticles.asp?id=84

            You said: “It’s troubling that you see gay people as what they do and not what they are. How inhumane! Even when a gay person isn’t “doing” anything, she’s still gay.” Now you are pretending you know what I do and how I treat people. I am right now visiting relatives in Los Angeles, one of which is a lesbian. My cousin and I just spent a half a day helping my uncle, her dad work on fixing a friend’s fax machine. Then afterwards we just relaxed with the rest of the family and enjoying one another’s company. My cousin and I have had talks about her homosexuality and after that we have left it alone and continued on with life. She knows where I stand and I know were she stands.

            Such as it is with many other Christians. We express our opinions but then we continue living with, working with and communicating with our homosexual friends, co-workers, family members and etc. So no, I see gay people for what they do and not for whom they are and please try not to prejudge Christians just because they don’t agree with your lifestyle!

            Being gay whether innate or not is something that can be changed. A sampling of that evidence is right on this blog with my listings of ex-gay advocates. They are changed and HAPPY! So to be gay is one thing, but to defy God and say you have no desire to change or can’t change is unacceptable. But I don’t expect you to desire to change your lifestyle because you have yet to taste of the love of Jesus Christ. A TRUE born-again life desires to please God in all aspects. If you don’t have Christ in your life then I don’t expect you to live the life of one who loves Christ.

            Jesus Himself has said: ““If you love Me, keep My commandments.” (John 14:15) and “You are My friends if you do whatever I command you.” (John 15:14)

            And what does Jesus have to say about marriage?

            “3The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause? 4And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,

            5And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? 6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. (Matthew 19:3-6)

            No examples of God giving blessings to any union other than between a man and a woman. Friends of Jesus and those who love Him are going to respect marriage in the manner that God created it.

  17. Cait says:

    These people are a disgrace! They embarrass all religious people. I personally choose not to care about religion. When i have kids i will not teach them of it, they can learn on their own and then come talk to me. I believe Gay people deserve the right to be married and get the same benefits. I also believe they should be able to adopt. I agree with what SPIRIT said in the LONG post. I think all children deserve love and the ones who can’t get it from their biological parents , need it from somewhere else. I am raised by two straight parents who are strongly religious. But I can personally say I would not mind being raised by two men or two women. If they can show the same love as mine have, I would be thrilled to have them as well. I am 100% for gay marriage.

    They use to say a black man and a white women or the other way around shouldn’t be able to be married. It was wrong and immoral. Look at the world now, we havent fallen apart because we allow it. The world doesnt circulate around what religious people want all the time. I say let someone get married if they love the other person, same gender or not. Love is Love.

    • Carlotta Morrow
      Twitter: christocentric
      says:

      Cait, the people in that video ARE a disgrace! It’s one thing to disagree with a person’s immoral lifestyle, but it’s another to be disrespectful and show no kindness to a person because of that.

      You do have to be careful comparing one’s skin color with being gay. There is nothing immoral about being black for example, because one’s color is benign. It’s not what they do, but whom they are. Being gay is only determined by what one does. One is gay because of their sexual preference…and it is a preference! One can not choose to be black or white – ever! (Okay, some may disagree here.)

      But the fact that you don’t believe in what the bible says and are not a Christian, then what you believe makes sense. Those of us who believe in Christ and believe in His word, our minds are shaped by what is taught in the bible. And as you read in earlier posts, the bible is strong in its definition of marriage: one man and one woman!

  18. Johanne says:

    Very interesting stuff. As a Christian living in an ever secularist society, I was wondering if there were any people left that had strong moral and Godly values. It’s nice to see posts like these in blog sites.

    • Carlotta
      Twitter: christocentric
      says:

      Thanks Johanne! Yes, there are people like us that believe strongly in God and His values in this world, but of course you won’t see us on the news are the TV talk shows too often! :)

  19. Phil says:

    Hi Carlotta-

    This will be my last post in this thread unless you invite an additional response. But I do want to clarify what I said, because you seem to have misinterpreted me.

    What I said was: The vast, vast majority of people believe that _their_own_ sexual orientation is innate.

    And, you _do_ believe that, you keep saying so. You are heterosexual, and you believe that your heterosexuality is innate.

    I am homosexual, and I believe that my homosexuality is innate.

    We each agree that our _own_ sexuality is innate. And that view is shared by the vast majority of Americans. We have a pretty strong concept of our own sexual orientation.

  20. Phil says:

    The same can be said about homosexuality inspite of the LGBT’s push for universal acceptance – it’s just not innate for us to do!

    Actually, Carlotta, I assert that homosexual relationships are innate for homosexuals.

    While you might believe that a person’s sexual orientation is not an innate characteristic, that is a fringe belief. In the scientific community, only a tiny percentage of people who study sexual orientation believe that it doesn’t have some biological component.

    Even in the lay community, people intrinsically understand this. The vast, vast majority of people believe that their own sexual orientation is innate. I suspect that even you hold that belief, Carlotta.

  21. Carlotta
    Twitter: christocentric
    says:

    Good comment to Phil Neil! I missed it among all the buzy-ness on this board yesterday.

    But Phil back to what you asked with your entire comment repeated:

    “Carlotta, I’ll concede that that sentence deals with children who have one non-biological parent, and that can include same-sex married couples.

    But you do realize that sentence is included in the paragraph about children of divorce, don’t you? The “children growing up with stepparents” are linked clearly to “marital disruption.” If you extrapolate from that study to children of gay parents, you’re still not comparing apples to apples.

    And if you did? Carlotta, I would be perfectly comfortable if same-sex couples had exactly the same legal rights as divorced persons. Is that a compromise that you and I could agree on? That “Same-sex couples seeking the right to marry should have exactly the same legal rights as divorced persons seeking to marry?””

    Neil explained it best saying that you were overlooking the point in that nothing should ever be encouraged for what’s less than best for families – two biological parents.

    Now I understand your question, because if divorcee’s and single-parents are allowed to marry into households with at least one-biological parent, then why not the ‘less then best’ gay parents too?

    That question involves more than second chance marriages. It involves what’s right and what’s wrong. Just like pedeophilia and sex outside of marriage, there are just things that are considered non-religious rights and wrongs. Even without the bible saying so, people just know the right thing to do is for a man and a woman to get married. Why is marriage still so popular inspite of divorces? It’s just the right thing to do – innately!

    The same can be said about homosexuality inspite of the LGBT’s push for universal acceptance – it’s just not innate for us to do! It’s not natural and people know it. Further confusion for children already deprived of both biological parents.

    I know it’s quite natural to you but for those of us that aren’t involved and can see a bit more clearly, it’s not a natural union at all Phil.

  22. Neil says:

    Phil, I assume you are being facetious with your last comment. Divorced people have a right to marry someone of the opposite sex, just as gay people do.

    The more important comparison that you seem to be overlooking is that the government should not encourage divorce because it is bad for children and it should not encourage oxymoronic same-sex marriage because it is bad as well. It can never provide a mother and a father to a child, which is the ideal to be encouraged. We aren’t saying that divorce, gay relationships and single parenthood should be illegal, just that under no circumstances should we encourage such plans as the ideal.

  23. Chris Centrique says:

    My children were taught many things in school with which I disagreed. I found it a great opportunity to talk with my kids and explain why I thought those things were wrong, and what I thought was right. We had some great discussions, and my kids learned to think about and weigh moral, social and political issues. And it is the ability to examine a thing from all sides, to weigh it and think it through, that protects our children and helps them grow up into adults who UNDERSTAND why it is important to live morally. If our kids learn only “this is right” but never get the chance to figure out and talk about WHY it is right when compared to some other option, they aren’t going to have the tools to make good choices when they’re out from under our control — at a party, or off to college. Kids who have only one viewpoint drummed into their heads and never explore the opposing viewpoint never have the opportunity to develop the critical thinking skills that are required to form a steadfast personal morality that will protect them; they’re just conditioned to accept the word of anyone who says, “this is correct.”

  24. Phil says:

    There’s no guessing with these stats, its showing that it is not the BEST situation for children to be in!

    Actually, there is a lot of guessing with those statistics, since none of the data you’ve presented compares children who grew up in households with married heterosexual parents to children who grew up in households with married gay parents.

    In fact, if you search the Child Trends site, they acknowledge in several papers that their findings cannot be extrapolated to gay couples.

  25. Giuseppe says:

    Hey Carlotta,

    Thanks for inviting me to this debate, I really appreciate it. I thought you might be interested to hear that the divorce rate in Massachussetts fell after Gay Marriage was approved.

    “The institution of marriage in Massachusetts, as measured by the rate of divorce, has not been healthier in at least half a century regardless of dire predictions of Christian Right leaders and Catholic Bishops. But the states that have taken aggressive action against same sex marriage, have not done nearly as well during the two year period of legal same sex marriage in Massachusetts.”

    “The preliminary data from 2004 and the first 11 months of 2005 — from the 17 US states which have provided data on divorce for 2004 and 2005 and whose voters also passed state constitutional amendents prohibiting same sex marriage — presents a striking picture : the group of US states arguably most hostile to divorce, those which have passed both state laws and also state constitutional amendments prohibiting same sex marriage, lag dramatically in terms of divorce rate improvement when compared to same sex marriage friendly states.”

    I also have to say that I disagree with your findings regarding children. My two children are doing just fine, and according to the American Psychological Association.

    “Fears about children of lesbian or gay parents being sexually abused by adults, ostracized by peers, or isolated in single-sex lesbian or gay communities have received no scientific support. Overall, results of research suggest that the development, adjustment, and well-being of children with lesbian and gay parents do not differ markedly from that of children with heterosexual parents.”

  26. Louis says:

    You know, a lot of researchers say that 53% of marriages end in divorce. Obviously 53% is a big enough majority to strip away rights, so why not take away heterosexual marriage? We’ll finally have stability in marriages! :D

  27. Phil says:

    Clear examples on how this gay debate is affecting religious freedoms.

    To be clear, then, you’re not saying that it is “gay marriage” that affects religious freedom, but “the gay debate.”

    We could, for example, have legal gay marriage and yet still have _no_ impositions on religious freedom.

  28. Carlotta
    Twitter: christocentric
    says:

    Issue: Children do better growing up in a hetero family.

    This is simply not the case.

    Spirit, I appreciate your comments but I do want to encourage you to take a look at the statistics given by social scientists in the links above. True, there are heterosexual parents that are bad for their children, but for the IDEAL living situation for children, is with both biological parents.

    Issue: same sex marriage is a threat to religious beliefs.

    I don’t know of any gay person that sites wanting to tear religion apart as a reason for marriage.

    Please refer to my post titled: “Gay Unions don’t affect religious freedom? Think again!” Clear examples on how this gay debate is affecting religious freedoms.

    The concern is not over “fears” but very real life situations which have already occurred and have been documented.

    What’s most important is not where you stand with Prop 8, abortion or animal rights, but where you stand with Jesus. Your relationship with Jesus Christ is what will shape what you will support or not.

    Spirit, do you know Christ as Lord and Savior?

  29. Spirit says:

    Honestly, I’m not even sure where to begin. I guess I’ll address the source. This post showcases fear gone mad.

    Issue: Children do better growing up in a hetero family.

    This is simply not the case. There are plenty of hetero households where the father molests the daughter, adultery is committed, divorce is running rampant, children are beat and abused (wives are as well), and so on and so forth. In these situations no one ever says this is why children shouldn’t be raised in a hetero household! no one looks at sex/gender when things go wrong then. Why Not? Let’s take a peek at hollywood, shall we? How often are actors and actresses divorcing one another? Madonna is the latest…Liz Taylor…Doald Trump…Russell Simmons…come on now. Let’s talk about how sacred marriage is with heteros…Is this what you’re begging DOMA to protect? Looks to me like the ‘sacred’ness of marriage ISN’T EVEN SACRED TO ALL HETEROS. Does this mean heteros should be banned from marriage?

    Issue: same sex marriage is a threat to religious beliefs.

    I don’t know of any gay person that sites wanting to tear religion apart as a reason for marriage. When straight people decide to get married, I don’t immediately start worrying about how they’ll raise their children or how this will damage my church. I think awww, isn’t it nice when two ppl that love each other can be together without being stressed out the wazoo about it :-) If anything, they deserve the same rights and priviliges allotted any other adult in this country wanting to be with the person they love for the rest of their lives. This isn’t about stopping christianity. Christianity is like roaches, it’s survived through wars, famine, disease, and everything else…so you can unclench your cheeks, it’s here to stay. This is about people being denied equality. The same way blacks were denied being treated EQUALLY. NOT seen as demons. NOT seen as inhuman. NOT seen as raging sexual addicts (what in the heck? black men were depicted in this manner for ages…still are. snatching purses and raping women) Have ALL blacks run rampant since being given equal rights (well sort of equal rights lol)? No. Was christianty or any other religion sent under because black were allowed to eat at the same counters as whites? No. So, rest your fears. Actually, if you look at the world as a whole, religious beliefs have been more of a threat to humanity than anything else. I’ve never heard of same-sex wars or homosexual crusades, but I do know of catholics and protestants leaving bloody trails in the name of God. People being burned at the stake in the name of God and women being burned alive for the same foolish fears. Wars in the name of Allah and even christians practicing polygamy. If homosexuals want to marry, they should be given the opportunity…and here’s a HUGE reason why THIS country SHOULD PROTECT THAT RIGHT: THIS COUNTRY WAS NOT FOUNDED FOR CHRISTIANITY! The very foundation of this country is FREEDOM. The freedom to worship allah, christ, buddah, even satan (although I wouldn’t recommend it). So, laws shouldn’t be based on the frantic religious fears of one religion or another. If this be the case, why use the bible? why not the koran? Why not the beliefs of Scientology? Here you have the freedom to declare fake terrorism wars where you bomb CHILDREN (since we’re so worried about the children) and still pass laws against abortion because life is so sacred! (*about to faint*). Many of the articles of evidence to support your claims are just plain uninformed and illogical. If I were to say that all black ppl are gangsters and listen to rap music, that would be stupid. To say that all whites want to keep blacks in slavery would be stupid. So, why would I open my mouth to say that all homosexuals are harmful to society. O.J Simpson is straight. Sarah Palin: straight. George Bush: straight. Saddam Hussein: Straight. Jospeh Stalin: straight. Hitler: straight. Ted Bundy: straight. Seems to me were not dealing with sexuality, we’re dealing with CERTAIN INDIVIDUALS THAT LACK BRAIN STEMS. There are straight and gay killers, theives, priests, nuns, presidents, bus drivers, teachers, pastors, athletes, etc. The problems plaguing this country can’t be scape-goated onto one race, sexuality, age group, or religion. Please, I beg you, stop terrifying yourself and others with psuedo-facts.

    has anyone been watching the news? have belgium, norway, canada, spain, or south africa been blown off the planet by homosexuals being able to MARRY? Are the children being delivered to satan in handbaskets? This doesn’t even require anyone to open a bible. All you need is a cerebral cortex to figure this out. The world is full of good ppl and bad ppl of all shapes, sizes, and colors, so let’s not let our fears override our common sense and humanity in this or any other issues.

    I was driving through an alley one day and passed a planned parenthood clinic. There was a christian rep that asked me to stop so he could speak to me about how abortion is wrong in the eyes of god, how life was sacred, and life begins at conception. He continued saying that as a christian, he knows the bible. The bible speaks out against this cruelty and so on. I asked him if he was a vegan or a vegetarian….he said no. I asked well what about the millions of lives being CREATED JUST TO BE CONSUMED BY US. He said but those are animals and these are humans. That’s not as important. *I almost died and went up to heaven to ask jesus if he could come down here and slap this guy for misrepresenting Him like this*. Now I’m confused…the same caring, loving, fighting for ‘right’ spirit that’s speaking against the loss of unborn human life, could care less about literally millions of animal lives being bred on ranches across the world for human consumption. Is that what all christians think? Does God only care about human life? Is that in the Bible? Now, i’d be a fool to sit and think that all christians had such a bass ackward belief system…so I let this man continue with his half-decent crusade and bid him peace and blessings.

    peace and blessings,
    spirit

  30. Carlotta
    Twitter: christocentric
    says:

    Trampling on religious freedoms?

    Shilo, you obviously haven’t read this post, or, you truly don’t believe the videos with the actual evidence of lost religious freedoms.

    “Instead of lynchings we now have gay bashings.

    Really? How can you compare gay bashings to the lynchings of the past? Your comparison doesn’t even come close. Try again.

    “Instead of Jim Crow laws we now have unequal treatment to the gay community.”

    Really? So gays have had to fight ….
    …for the right to register as a voter?
    …the right to use public facilities?
    …the right to get a fair hearing in court?
    …the right to send their children to a public school?
    …the right to equal opportunity in housing and employment?

    Have gays been forced to sit in the back of buses? Confined to segregated neighborhoods? Barred from serving on juries? Subjected to systematic economic exploitation?

    Gays form one of the wealthiest “minorities” in America and your comparison of gay rights to racial civil rights is just pure ridiculous as is anyone else’s attempt in this feeble and desperate comparison.

    And yes, I did edit your *f— you* ending out of this ridiculous comment.

  31. Shilo says:

    Trampling on religious freedoms?

    Legalizing gay marriage doesn’t trample on ANY freedoms! It makes a gay couple legally married in a state! Any church can still oppose letting gays marry.

    And we already tried “separate but equal.” Remember how that turned out?

    Instead of lynchings we now have gay bashings.
    Instead of Jim Crow laws we now have unequal treatment to the gay community.

    We aren’t looking for anythings special, we are as much a part of this country as you and are just as capable, if not MORE so, than raising a family in a healthy environment.

    It’s obvious you have no idea what you are talking about and I hope all of your children are born gay just to teach you some tolerance.

  32. Carlotta
    Twitter: christocentric
    says:

    Beetlebabee, I also enjoyed your blog after I found it on “Lez Get Real’s” website hit list of Prop 8 blogs! I enjoyed it so much I had it added to my list of blogs to see for Prop 8!

    I hadn’t seen that article and I am adding it to this post for additional reading – a must read!

    Thanks so much for sharing that!

  33. beetlebabee says:

    Carlotta, I enjoyed your blog today! I have been surfing around seeing what everyone has been saying about this issue. Have you seen this article? I liked it so much I put it up on my page:

    20 Reasons to Vote Yes on prop 8

    The issue over legitimizing gay marriage is not one of equal “rights” – because California law insures that “domestic partners shall have the same rights, protections and benefits…as married spouses”. (California Family Code §297.5.)

    It is, instead, a question of equal “dignity”. Proponents of gay marriage do not want homosexuals to feel like “second-class citizens” as a result of not being allowed to use the familiar and highly favored designation of “marriage”. (Again, being treated like second class citizens is not the issue – there are plenty of legal protections to keep that from happening. It is the feelings of gay couples that are the concern.) Proponents of gay marriage believe that civil decency (and Jesus) requires us to be compassionate, loving and tolerant of homosexual relationships, which they say requires us to extend to them full acceptance, equal dignity, and identical status.

    Virtually everyone would be willing to grant “equal status” – if it did no harm. The problem is, there are devastating consequences for doing so, which proponents of gay marriage refuse to consider. For them, “feelings trump consequences.” The following material will evidence that granting equal status to gay marriage will irreparably damage: marriage, families, parenting, children, morality, freedom of religion, freedom of speech, majority rule, separation of powers, states’ rights, and America . We cannot allow this effort to “not hurt people’s feelings” lay waste to so many institutions, principles and rights.

    The rest of it is too long to post, but answers a lot of the questions I had about the consequences of prop 8:
    http://beetlebabee.wordpress.com/2008/10/26/why-preserve-man-woman-marriage/

  34. Carlotta
    Twitter: christocentric
    says:

    Pastor DL, consider it done!

  35. gcmwatch says:

    Thanks Carlotta for including the link to the story of Lowell and Carolyn Groff. I would have one change though. Its not negative consequences, its deadly consequences. If not natural 100% of the time, then certainly spiritual 100% of the time. For the wages of sin is death…

  36. Carlotta
    Twitter: christocentric
    says:

    Thank you and well said Edgar and Neil!

  37. Neil says:

    Great post!

    “He and his wife had the option of not accepting the bag of books that came home–they seemed to be unaware of what was going on in their child’s education.”

    That is a cop out. The child already had the books in his possession. Go ahead and try to convince me that the schools won’t push this on the kids and not even send the books home.

    A teacher in California recently made this comment on my site in response to the 1st grade field trip to an oxymorinic gay wedding: “Well, Neil, I’m a public school teacher here in California and I will take my students to a gay wedding whether it is legal or not.” That is the mentality we are fighting here.

    “It seems like you’re more focused on saving yourself than saving others.”

    That seems like a rather odd “Christian” response. I can’t find anywhere in the Bible where it is loving to affirm people’s sinful behavior. And you seem to only focus on gay people. Yes, we should treat them with love and respect, but we shouldn’t affirm sinful behavior in anyone, including ourselves. And we are called to protect others, including the children who will be subjected to perversions being labeled as normal.


    Gov’t recognition of these unions makes the church an enemy of government. It is a logical consequence.

  38. Edgar says:

    The fact that social research says that children do better when they have strong traditional families (e.g. a dad and a mom) should close the deal. yet, our “post-modern” mentality corrupts our thinking.

  39. Carlotta
    Twitter: christocentric
    says:

    Kevin, let me explain to you what type of choice parents want in school – the choice to opt out if any objectionable material is covered.

    This is as well as the choice to homeschool, private school and etc. But in David Parker’s case, he had no other choice but to take his children out of the school since they would be taught homosexuality as an acceptable lifestyle, especially since gay marriages are now legal in that state.

    Opting out of the books that their children were already seeing? No, to opt out from that would have meant that their children NEVER brought them home to begin with!

    The truth of what happened in Mass. was the fact that gay marriages are legal and now they are treated as equal to any other marriage – a fact that we Californians are taking notice of and also showing in the TV ads of what can happened if we legalize gay marriages as Mass. has already done.

    David Parker’s incident just gave notice to the whole state of Cali. of what can happen once gay marriages become legal.

    And no, that is not bad parenting at all!

  40. Kevin Kaatz says:

    Carlotta–you keep saying: “Did you even read where David Parker in Massachusetts had NO CHOICE in his child’s education?” He did have a right! He had the right to take his kids out of school. He and his wife had the option of not accepting the bag of books that came home–they seemed to be unaware of what was going on in their child’s education. That isn’t the fault of the school–that is bad parenting. Clearly the Supreme Court saw this and refused to act. That alone should tell you something about the truth of what happened in Mass.

  41. Carlotta
    Twitter: christocentric
    says:

    It’s okay Sis, you’re cool with me!

    I still think you have a pretty cool site – great work!

  42. Kayla says:

    yo, my bad. not trying to start a fight. i’m a little upset, clearly.

    no hard feelings…

  43. Carlotta
    Twitter: christocentric
    says:

    Um, okay Kayla. You’re a sister in Christ so I won’t be any harder on you. I’ll respectfully disagree with you and leave it at that.

  44. Kayla says:

    I’ve read your articles and I know that that guy decided to homeschool his kids, but the fact of the matter is that Christians aren’t the only people in the world. There are other beliefs and lifestyle choices, and we won’t always agree with them.

    Sometimes our kids will have to learn something in schools that goes against what we believe. But this a free country and people have freedom of speech and opinions. When schools were teaching creation and not evolution, I’m sure there were a lot of non-christian parents who weren’t happy that their kids were learning something that they didn’t believe in. So they fought and got evolution taught in schools. And then christians fought and got them both taught as theories.

    Yes, there have been and will continue to be situations where churches and parents and religious organizations don’t get to have things happen exactly according to what they believe. And in those situations, they should fight to have their beliefs recognized just like everyone else’s. But (like what happened to that guy), we won’t always get what we want and we have to figure out how to compromise because our belief system is not the only one. And, if we want other people to respect what we believe, we have to respect what they believe.

    Like I said in a previous post, we shouldn’t base our decisions on whether we’ll be persecuted. Jesus was persecuted more than we could ever imagine and he still did what he came to do – show love, teach compassion, be the final sacrifice. But note, that he didn’t force anyone to follow him and he didn’t demand that the government change their laws to be in accordance with his teachings. He lived his life in line with what he was teaching and encouraged others to do the same, giving them the FREEDOM to make their own decisions.

    I’d rather be persecuted for allowing gay marriage and have my gay friends and family members see that I love them (and more importantly, God loves them) in spite of the fact that I see that aspect of their lifestyle as sinful, and have them be brought closer to God …than to spare myself and other christians persecution and have them be pushed so far away from God that they don’t even want to consider Him as an option in their lives.

    Maybe you’re the one who needs to sit down and think through what your real goal as a Christian in this world is. It seems like you’re more focused on saving yourself than saving others.

    Maybe you won’t post this but I know you’ll read it. God loves gay people in spite of their sins just as much as He loves you in spite of yours.

  45. Carlotta
    Twitter: christocentric
    says:

    Kayla, I looked at your website and you appear to be ignoring all the articles written on what’s going on with Christians as a result of the acceptance of the gay lifestyle as “moral.”

    For example, you wrote that with education, just working with the schools would bring some type of solution. Did you even read where David Parker in Massachusetts had NO CHOICE in his child’s education? The homosexual agenda was being taught in his child’s school WITHOUT parental consent because gay marriages are an acceptable lifestyle legally. He had no other choice BUT to homeschool his children. For taxpaying citizens, that is totally unacceptable.

    You are ignoring what is already happening. If Christians thought that gays living their lifestyle wouldn’t affect them in any way at all, then sure, it wouldn’t matter how we’d vote on anything.

    But you aren’t being realistic regarding what’s really happening right now and you need to sit down and take a few moments to catch up with todays current events.

    • Shane says:

      Parents never have “no choice” in their childrens’ education. David Parker has every right to teach his children not to agree with anything that was being taught in school. He also has the right to send his child to a different school or home school. The teacher wasn’t commenting on whether homosexual marriage was right or wrong, he was teaching about different family structures as they exist in the world. You aren’t being realistic as to what is really happening in the world. You need to seriously spend sometime thinking about what Jesus would do. Would he let other peoples actions have such a strong effect on his own decisions and view points? would he persecute them and make them feel bad about them selves?

  46. Kayla says:

    I had so many thoughts in response to what you said in this and other articles that I wrote my own.

    http://www.notyourmamasreligion.com/articles_view.asp?columnid=3202&articleid=50472

    The gist is that we shouldn’t base our decisions on whether we’ll face persecution. If Jesus had done that, He wouldn’t have come to Earth or started His ministry here.

  47. Carlotta
    Twitter: christocentric
    says:

    Kayla, you said:

    “i also disagree with your article on how gay marriage will “trample on religious freedoms”. it’s all dependent on how gay marriage is enacted in your state and how churches/religious organizations fight for the freedom to respond to gay marriage.”

    Kayla, I don’t know if you’ve just missed the news lately, but our religious freedoms have ALREADY began being taken away! Massachusetts is a great example of a state where gay marriage is already legal and Christians lives are turned upside down as a result of gay marriages being made legal. Just catch up on the David Parker story.

    So “scary” as these statistics may be, they are true. If I’m giving the appearance of scaring folks away from approving same-sex marriages – you betcha I am!

    God didn’t make homosexuality a sin for no reason, He did so for our benefit – as with any sin He’s listed in His word. Science just puts an exclamation mark on what God has already warned us about.

    • John Jingleheimer says:

      You can’t scare me. I believe everyone has a right to be happy. What if you found out one of your children was gay. Would you love them any less. God put us on this earth to treat others with respect and as equals. He put us on this earth to LOVE not hate. You can ignore this if you disagree its just my opinion. But think of this every second you spend discriminating and hating others you waste a second of the life you could be living.

      • Carlotta Morrow
        Twitter: christocentric
        says:

        JJ, not trying to scare you, oh wait a minute. Yes, I am. But what I’ve presented on this post are some very good reasons on why same-sex relationships are detrimentally both spiritually as well as physically. And if you know what God has put us on earth for, you would also know that obedience to Him is evidence of love for Him:

        “If you love Me, keep My commandments.” – John 14:15

        People confuse God’s love with doing anything they want but that is not the case. Christ confirmed what marriage should be and warned not for anyone to dismantle what God has created. Read what Jesus’ answer to the Pharisees revealed during their discussion on divorce:

        The Pharisees also came to Him, testing Him, and saying to Him, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for just any reason?”
        And He answered and said to them, “Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’ and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.” – Matthew 19:3-6

        Male and female and Jesus said not to separate what God has created in the beginning. Same-sex marriage is a dismantling of God’s original intent on creating the opposite sexes. Ignoring that is showing that one could care less about what God wants but rather what they want. So if you TRULY love God, then you will honor His formula for marriage which begins with male and female and nothing else. You will find no where in the bible where it speaks honorably of same-sex relationships but quite the opposite:

        “For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.” – Romans 1:26-27

        The descriptive word of same-sex relationships here is “vile” and that is not exactly a positive word at all. So JJ, if you want to really love God, then you would no longer support “vile” relationships and honor what God had created in the very beginning – marriage between one man and one woman.

  48. Kayla says:

    wow, this is a lot information. thanks for compiling it all.

    but it seems to have the feel of discrimination because it’s weird/different and wanting to scare people into opposing gay marriage. like “aghhhh the world’s going to end and our children will be corrupted if gay people can get married”.

    even though u’ve provided to facts to back up your reasons for opposing gay marriage, i think some of these reasons:
    – could apply to heterosexual marriages (mainly because divorce has a negative effect on society)
    – are a bit extreme (being gay has a negative effect on health because some people want crazy sex lives???)

    i also disagree with your article on how gay marriage will “trample on religious freedoms”. it’s all dependent on how gay marriage is enacted in your state and how churches/religious organizations fight for the freedom to respond to gay marriage.

    i don’t support homosexuality b/c the Bible says that it’s a sin but i don’t think that all gay people want to have uncommitted relationships and wild, AIDS-filled sex lives. while there are some people who might feel that way, the gay people that i know are interested in the same old committed relationships that heterosexual people have, even if they end up with the same chances of divorce.

    this article definitely has the feel of freaking people out so they oppose gay marriage.

  49. Carlotta
    Twitter: christocentric
    says:

    You know Louis, that point was brought out by our pastor when he preached on marriage during the Prop 8 campaign, and he and many others are also saying that marriage needs to be strengthened. In fact, more sermons are preached on marriage than they are on homosexuality.

    Heterosexual marriage is necessary for the foundation of any community so no, it should never be taken away.

  50. Carlotta
    Twitter: christocentric
    says:

    Thanks Giuseppe for coming on over! Hopefully our dialogue will prove more constructive than destructive! :)

    About your first paragraph:

    Thanks for inviting me to this debate, I really appreciate it. I thought you might be interested to hear that the divorce rate in Massachusetts fell after Gay Marriage was approved.

    This is not surprising to me because firstly, you’ve had a mad rush initially of people fleeing to Massachusetts to get married since it was legalized in 2004, and the lowered divorce rate would be a natural consequence of these new marriages that haven’t been around long enough for divorce statistics to fall. Will they? That hasn’t been measured yet with enough time elapsing since gay marriages are still pretty new.

    But the sad story is that heterosexual marriages are in such sad shape that it won’t help ANY marriage statistics. The LGBT community’s complaints about heterosexual marriages are quite understandable. But do we suggest for folks to approve of homosexual marriages because of the heterosexual marriage failures? Not hardly. There’s always been an effort, especially through churches, to improve the relationships of the married man and woman.

    You also said:

    I also have to say that I disagree with your findings regarding children. My two children are doing just fine, and according to the American Psychological Association.

    Where are the APA’s statistics showing that your children are fine and comparable to children coming from homes with both biological married parents? My children are also doing fine coming from a single-parent family home. They are mostly quite successful, well-adjusted with strong moral values (Christian). But at the same time they still suffered the consequences of not having a dad in the home. Emotional problems, relationship problems, discipline problems while growing up – lack of an example of a good marriage and a series of other things they may not have had to suffer if they had been in a home with both their mom and dad.

    Just to say your children are fine isn’t enough. Take a look at the statistics on my link above to the Child Trends Research Briefs, a non-partisan, non-religious social scientist group that’s compiled information regarding families. Even the religious based Family Research Council’s mapping of America gives very precise data that single-parents, homes with only one biological parents aren’t doing well as the homes with both married mom and dad. There’s no guessing with these stats, its showing that it is not the BEST situation for children to be in!

    Giuseppe, compare the APA with Child Trends Research and that will definitely present a more realistic picture of family makeups. The APA is not respected among many who are religious because of the APA’s favoritism towards the homosexual community and its anti-religion bias. That’s why I like organizations like Child Trends that doesn’t have any bias or favoritism towards anyone and comes straight with the facts.

  51. Carlotta
    Twitter: christocentric
    says:

    Phil, what makes Child Trends a very good report to read because they aren’t coming from a gay to non-gay perspective. Their reports are simply to present their research findings is what is best for families overall. Gay couples which consist of either one biological parent, or no biological parents and can easily be fit into Child Trends findings. There doesn’t need to be a “gay” wording presented before any findings.

    In their brief titled: “Marriage from a Child’s Perspective: How Does Family Structure Affect Children and What Can We Do about It?” they write the following (pages 1-2):

    “Research findings linking family structure and parents’ marital status with children’s well-being are very consistent. The majority of children who are not raised by both biological parents manage to grow up without serious problems, especially after a period of adjustment for children whose parents divorce. Yet, on average, children in single-parent families are more likely to have problems than are children who live in intact families headed by two biological parents.

    Divorce is linked to academic and behavior problems among children, including depression, antisocial behavior, impulsive/hyperactive behavior, and school behavior problems. Mental health problems linked to marital disruption have also been identified among young adults. Children growing up with stepparents also have lower levels of well-being than children growing up with biological parents. Thus, it is not simply the presence of two parents, as some have assumed, but the presence of two biological parents that seems to support children’s development.”

    Two biological parents Phil, is the best scenario for children. And we know that there is a 100% impossibility of a child coming from a same-sex marriage/cohabitation with two biological parents which automatically places that child at a disadvantage. But like the report says, children have managed to come out of those families “okay.” But not at their best.

  52. Carlotta
    Twitter: christocentric
    says:

    Chris, I admire your desire to teach your children to be free thinkers and to choose for themselves. With that I’m very similar to you in the teaching of my children. My children were taught that although I believe in Christ, they have to make that decision on their own. Of course they had my influence, my teachings but I also gave them the opportunity to ask questions and to come to their own conclusions.

    Teaching morality is God’s territory. When a child asks why must we do this or that, or NOT do this or that when it comes to morals and they ask where do morals come from, what do you tell your children? Those of us who believe in God will of course say from God. But how do we know it comes from God? Then we talk about God’s manual for mankind, the bible.

    Chris, what are you going to do if your children take it to the extent that they research the bible for answers to life and find that although their father teaches them morals, that the homosexual lifestyle is considered immoral in the bible? That there is not one instance where God is praising are giving acceptance to marriage with two men in the bible?

    The only way that homosexuality can be taught as acceptable when discussing “morality” is to discredit a belief in God and/or a belief in the bible. I haven’t met a homosexual yet who can ever say that the bible is God’s inerrent word to us.

    The challenge for you will be if your children ever pick up the bible and read it on their own – AND believe if Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior!

  53. Phil says:

    Children growing up with stepparents also have lower levels of well-being than children growing up with biological parents.

    Carlotta, I’ll concede that that sentence deals with children who have one non-biological parent, and that can include same-sex married couples.

    But you do realize that sentence is included in the paragraph about children of divorce, don’t you? The “children growing up with stepparents” are linked clearly to “marital disruption.” If you extrapolate from that study to children of gay parents, you’re still not comparing apples to apples.

    And if you did? Carlotta, I would be perfectly comfortable if same-sex couples had exactly the same legal rights as divorced persons. Is that a compromise that you and I could agree on? That “Same-sex couples seeking the right to marry should have exactly the same legal rights as divorced persons seeking to marry?”

  54. Carlotta
    Twitter: christocentric
    says:

    Phil said: “The vast, vast majority of people believe that their own sexual orientation is innate. I suspect that even you hold that belief, Carlotta.”

    No I don’t believe that Phil. I don’t believe that “everyone’s sexual orientation is innate.” There is right and wrong built within each of us and homosexuality doesn’t ring as naturally “right” to most people.

    Okay Phil, we’re at a point where our opinions have crossed once again. We’ll have to agree to disagree and leave it at that – again! So off of this topic we go!

  55. Jesse says:

    So, Carlotta, you don’t believe your own sexuality is innate?

  56. Brandin says:

    Carlotta, Look, dont like gay merriages? Dont have one. And that man comparing it to 9/11 is truely blinded.
    Everything on this post can be trampled out by the law, not allowing religious bias to effect the country. Which seems to not be in effect,banning it is purely based off of bad christians like yourself. I have christian friends and theres nothing wrong with christianity, but mam there is most definately wrong with our mental health.

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